[ashmostro]

Tomorrow I will be getting a whole bunch of tasty suspension bits installed on my car, including coils, M3 parts, and adjustable upper arms in the rear.

I drive moderately aggressive on the street and do HPDEs. I'd like to select a rear camber that is a good balance between the two, and promotes more neutral steering as well as more straight line traction. As such, here is what I am thinking of for alignment settings... let me know if you have any critiques:

Front
1. Camber: -2.5 degrees
2. Toe: zero degrees

Rear
1. Camber: -1.5 degrees
2. Toe: very slight toe in… 0.20 degrees total

Thoughts on front-rear camber balance? I keep seeing people choose camber settings that are 0.5 degrees apart rather than 1 degree, which is one of the reasons I'm posing the question.

Thanks

[Turn In Concepts]

The rear camber is going to depend on how low you set the car. If pretty low you may not be able to get back to -1.5*. On mine for daily driving and HPDE I set it to -3* in the front and -1.8* in the rear (as little as I could evenly get in the rear) with .05* total toe front and .15* total toe rear. It felt good like this and had little understeer.

Tony

[ashmostro]

Tony, first off thanks for replying I appreciate it!

I won't be slamming the car, maybe just .5" lower than ZSP, and I am installing Megan adjustable upper arms (camber, trailing, toe) so i *think* I should gain more adjustability there.

Regardless of that question, do you think my spread between front and rear camber is a good target? How about the absolute front camber- too little or too much for my application? Obviously with camber plates I could easily have two setups that I can switch between but it still begs the question.

Thanks again

[mike-y]

That looks to be a decent starting point for a dual purpose car. Your tires will also affect how the front end bites during turn in, so keep that in mind. I'd say run with your target settings, see how the car feels. take it to a couple of events.

you can always re-adjust the front camber later if you have plates.

[ashmostro]

Sweet, thanks Mike-y. Yeah I gleaned these settings from various posts and conversations as a good compromise setup. Hope the work all gets done today but it's not looking like it will. I'm getting impatient!

[Turn In Concepts]

I would agree that you have a good starting point. The ultimate numbers will depend on your specific setup and driving style thus getting a baseline with above will be a great starting point.

Tony

[ashmostro]

Thanks fellas yall are good peoples

[Chefcg1]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but Tony I have a question. I recently had my alignment done to -2 camber zero toe front and rear, car is lowed about an inch all around. I have noticed that now when I go into a turn at about 45deg steering angle I get a almost floating feel then its gone. it happens left and right turns. kinda feels like hitting ice. Any ideas?

[HP Autosport]

As Tony said, this is a great starting point. I have -1.8 in the rear but 1.5 is close enough for moderate use. It doesn't look like you are putting down a ton of power, so toe options are great. Also, if you can, max out your camber plates when you go to an HPDE. You can always switch them back for road use and normal wear, but for track events, the more camber the better!

-Mike

[ashmostro]

Awesome, thanks Mike!

BTW, it was my wife that ordered the M3 strut brace and the backordered AST flex extenders from you a few weeks back. The brace- much to my surprise- actually made a noticeable impact in reducing cowl shake and just generally reducing the feeling of twist in the front clip!

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Chefcg1

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but Tony I have a question. I recently had my alignment done to -2 camber zero toe front and rear, car is lowed about an inch all around. I have noticed that now when I go into a turn at about 45deg steering angle I get a almost floating feel then its gone. it happens left and right turns. kinda feels like hitting ice. Any ideas?

Don't want to jack Tony's answer but maybe you are just experiencing the instantaneous pitch of the car as you throw it into a corner? That initial shift of weight can be described as floating (especially if you can only adjust dampening on your coils), and then once the coils 'react,' it feels more planted and even. This can be eliminated when you get a coilover setup with more compression control. You will always have the "feeling," it just becomes a matter of how big of a feeling that is. Hope that helped a little.

-Mike

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by ashmostro

Awesome, thanks Mike!

BTW, it was my wife that ordered the M3 strut brace and the backordered AST flex extenders from you a few weeks back. The brace- much to my surprise- actually made a noticeable impact in reducing cowl shake and just generally reducing the feeling of twist in the front clip!

Glad to hear! You're completely right, when I did my front strut brace I noticed a HUGE difference in the characteristics of the front end. Doesn't look like a big mod, but helps A LOT around the track and spirited driving.

-Mike

[Chefcg1]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Don't want to jack Tony's answer but maybe you are just experiencing the instantaneous pitch of the car as you throw it into a corner? That initial shift of weight can be described as floating (especially if you can only adjust dampening on your coils), and then once the coils 'react,' it feels more planted and even. This can be eliminated when you get a coilover setup with more compression control. You will always have the "feeling," it just becomes a matter of how big of a feeling that is. Hope that helped a little.

-Mike

thanks for your thoughts. I may play around with the firmness settings and see if that settles it down more, just kinda of unsettling feeling right now.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Chefcg1

thanks for your thoughts. I may play around with the firmness settings and see if that settles it down more, just kinda of unsettling feeling right now.

I have never heard of D2 coils, are they double adjustable (compression included)? Do you know your spring rates? Sways? If you don't have the compression, higher spring rates, or sways, your car is just rolling into corners with all that power from you RBs.

[ashmostro]

venting.... idiot shop estimated it would take "30 hours" to do coils, M3 bits, subframe, and sways. I know it's a lot of work, but it's definitely not 30 hours of work.

Gotta find the time to get back up to VAC... really wanted to get this done though. At least VAC will do it right.

</venting>

[Chefcg1]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

I have never heard of D2 coils, are they double adjustable (compression included)? Do you know your spring rates? Sways? If you don't have the compression, higher spring rates, or sways, your car is just rolling into corners with all that power from you RBs.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306507
not sure on spring rate, checking on that now.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by ashmostro

venting.... idiot shop estimated it would take "30 hours" to do coils, M3 bits, subframe, and sways. I know it's a lot of work, but it's definitely not 30 hours of work.

Gotta find the time to get back up to VAC... really wanted to get this done though. At least VAC will do it right.

</venting>

30 hours? Are you kidding? LOL. We charge around 13 hours of labor for all of that stuff.

Originally Posted by Chefcg1

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306507
not sure on spring rate, checking on that now.

Ok, it is a sub $1k suspension kit and probably progressive springs. No offense, but you will feel the car roll and pitch like crazy. You really do get what you pay for with suspensions, so you can either live with the sub-par performance or pay to have a nice setup. Just trying to give you a better idea of what to expect.

-Mike

[ashmostro]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

30 hours? Are you kidding? LOL. We charge around 13 hours of labor for all of that stuff.

I told them they were smoking the Dutch stuff! They didn't believe me that VAC quoted about the same time you just did.

In retrospect, if that's how far off they are, I'm glad they aren't working on my car. Probably dodged a bullet.

[Chefcg1]

The springs rates are 9.0f/11.5r, KG/MM

[Chefcg1]

Originally Posted by ashmostro

venting.... idiot shop estimated it would take "30 hours" to do coils, M3 bits, subframe, and sways. I know it's a lot of work, but it's definitely not 30 hours of work.

Gotta find the time to get back up to VAC... really wanted to get this done though. At least VAC will do it right.

</venting>

That's stupid crazy. I did all that minus the sways and I did inserts instead full subframe bushings in one day in my garage on jackstands.

[Chefcg1]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

30 hours? Are you kidding? LOL. We charge around 13 hours of labor for all of that stuff.



Ok, it is a sub $1k suspension kit and probably progressive springs. No offense, but you will feel the car roll and pitch like crazy. You really do get what you pay for with suspensions, so you can either live with the sub-par performance or pay to have a nice setup. Just trying to give you a better idea of what to expect.

-Mike

To be honest until I got the alignment it was great feeling. no pitch or roll, very predictable. So I was wondering if had more to do with moving to zero toe. I realize these are inexpensive coilovers and I agree you get what you pay for in most cases. Its only been a couple weeks since I got the alignment so I may go back to the shop and have them relook at everything since this is a new feeling on the same setup.

[Doyle]

Did you try RRT?

Originally Posted by ashmostro

I told them they were smoking the Dutch stuff! They didn't believe me that VAC quoted about the same time you just did.

In retrospect, if that's how far off they are, I'm glad they aren't working on my car. Probably dodged a bullet.