[Falafel Combo]

How will you order your ///M235i? Please vote and discuss!

[Falafel Combo]

Call me indecisive, but I STILL can't make up my mind. That's kind of embarrassing, given the fact that I've had RWD BMW's and xDrive BMW's. Autos and 6MT's. I should be able to make up my mind by now, no?


My case for each:


RWD:

- Less maintenance down the road
- Better MPG
- Better stance
- True Sport/M Sport suspension
- More suspension aftermarket options
- Not very efficient in delivering high power and torque to the road. In my experience, powerful RWD cars are usually jumpy under full throttle and loose traction much easier = less stable around corners and wet conditions = nanny constantly kicking in to kill the power



xDrive:

- 4x4 stance
- Base suspension
- Delivers the power to the ground so much better than RWD models
- Better grip in almost all driving and weather conditions
- Better handling
- Year round usability
- Premium cost


6MT:

- More fun
- More fun
- More fun



Auto:

- Delivers power much better than 6 MT
- Very responsive paddles
- Excellent ZF8 transmission
- Customizable driving modes
- Better MPG



What did I miss?

[Falafel Combo]

Since this will be an "///M" car, is it possible the xDrive variation will suffer from the base model suspension? Are they perhaps re-working the xDrive to somehow accommodate the M suspension bits?


That will be a big factor in my decision as well.

[IEDEI]

I've driven the zf transmission in a bunch of cars and it is 'blah' like a regular autobox. don't believe the hype. if it was a DCT it was worth considering but if I were you I'd stick to a manual!

[vinny84]

I'm ordering mine in RWD and 8spd Auto.

[alex2364]

How is 4x4 stance and base suspension an advantage? And AWD won't have better handling than RWD. The only AWD BMWs I'd get are X1/X3/X5/X6. Everything else is better suited for RWD.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by alex2364

How is 4x4 stance and base suspension an advantage? And AWD won't have better handling than RWD. The only AWD BMWs I'd get are X1/X3/X5/X6. Everything else is better suited for RWD.

Not advantages at all, you're right. I am just trying to list all the pros and cons to me.

[dmboone25]

I had never owned an automatic until my current DCT-equipped E82...and I did it for a woman....yes, yes, I know--quite stupid.

I am definitely moving back to the manual--I know it is slower, but I just don't care. I miss the fun and the feeling like I am truly involved in the overall driving experience.

Not saying you can't feel that way with the DCT or ZF (that we will get in the M235i), but it just didn't do it for me.

[vinny84]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I had never owned an automatic until my current DCT-equipped E82...and I did it for a woman....yes, yes, I know--quite stupid.

I am definitely moving back to the manual--I know it is slower, but I just don't care. I miss the fun and the feeling like I am truly involved in the overall driving experience.

Not saying you can't feel that way with the DCT or ZF (that we will get in the M235i), but it just didn't do it for me.

Shame on you for having a women influence your car buying decision

Haha, kidding aside, I agree with you, I'm going with the ZF auto but I'm sure I'll miss the involvement of my e82 now. I guess I'll find out within the next year

[pinemind]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

Since this will be an "///M" car, is it possible the xDrive variation will suffer from the base model suspension? Are they perhaps re-working the xDrive to somehow accommodate the M suspension bits?


That will be a big factor in my decision as well.

This.

Please can we get an X-drive car that actually gets the sports suspension when you order the sport/M-sport/M235i?

Currently, the X1 is the only BMW X-drive model that actually gets a sport suspension when ordered with the M-sport package (not counting X5M/X6M).

It would be nice to have that without mucking with the suspension/warranty right out of the gate.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

I've driven the zf transmission in a bunch of cars and it is 'blah' like a regular autobox. don't believe the hype. if it was a DCT it was worth considering but if I were you I'd stick to a manual!

I agree. It's better than any other torque converter before it, there but it's still not as good as manual or DCT. It also seems to be a little jarring and you can feel each gear change on downshifts when slowly coming to a stop.

I'm interested in the M235i and an M2 but won't be getting one any time soon but if I were to be buying, I'm not sure what transmission I would go with. The ZF auto is "good enough" for me and it's a plus that my wife can adequately drive it. A manual is a PITA in my daily bumper to bumper commute but otherwise it's my preference.

Ya know, I'm not sure I could be satisfied with this car with an autobox unless it were DCT. I'm picturing it now and the auto just seems lame. So there, manual for me. And I'd like a rear biased xdrive but would definitely want a sport suspension.

[numbersguy]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

I've driven the zf transmission in a bunch of cars and it is 'blah' like a regular autobox. don't believe the hype. if it was a DCT it was worth considering but if I were you I'd stick to a manual!

My 535i has the 8 speed. Shifts using the paddles are instantaneous and there is no torque converter slippage whatsoever. It is functionally the same as DCT. The car is heavy and underpowered so it isn't much on the fun scale, but a DCT wouldn't get those shifts any quicker than this automatic.

That said, I'm undecided about manual vs. auto for the m235i. The auto performs better without a doubt and who doesn't want the quicker car? Reality is, I won't track this car and the performance edge of the automatic means nothing on the street. That's why I'm leaning toward the 6 speed.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by numbersguy

My 535i has the 8 speed. Shifts using the paddles are instantaneous and there is no torque converter slippage whatsoever. It is functionally the same as DCT. The car is heavy and underpowered so it isn't much on the fun scale, but a DCT wouldn't get those shifts any quicker than this automatic.

That said, I'm undecided about manual vs. auto for the m235i. The auto performs better without a doubt and who doesn't want the quicker car? Reality is, I won't track this car and the performance edge of the automatic means nothing on the street. That's why I'm leaning toward the 6 speed.

Thanks for saving me the typing. I agree on both accounts. The sport ZF8 in my f30 335i was just an incredible transmission. Just amazing (and I don't normally even like autos). Downshifts, rev matching, lightning quick up shifts in Sport mode and smooth and quiet shifts in comfort all made for a very pleasurable experience. Can't fault it at all. But I still sold the damn thing to go back to a 6MT.

[Transfer]

Have you guys driven an M3 DCT or F10 M5 DCT in full S5 or S6 mode? I can compare my M3 DCT to our X1 8sp and there is no contest the M-DCT is 1000x better in every way. Unless you've driven both, I don't think you can claim they're about the same.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Transfer

Have you guys driven an M3 DCT or F10 M5 DCT in full S5 or S6 mode? I can compare my M3 DCT to our X1 8sp and there is no contest the M-DCT is 1000x better in every way. Unless you've driven both, I don't think you can claim they're about the same.

Agree, the 8sp is a good traditional auto, but it is no DCT. Although the M3 DCT feels a lot better than the DCT in the 335is.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Agree, the 8sp is a good traditional auto, but it is no DCT. Although the M3 DCT feels a lot better than the DCT in the 335is.

Originally Posted by Transfer

Have you guys driven an M3 DCT or F10 M5 DCT in full S5 or S6 mode? I can compare my M3 DCT to our X1 8sp and there is no contest the M-DCT is 1000x better in every way. Unless you've driven both, I don't think you can claim they're about the same.

You are both probably correct. DCT > ZF8


Lets stay focused on the M235i. Do we know for a fact it will be the ZF8 or is there a small, even remote chance it will get a DCT?

[vinny84]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

You are both probably correct. DCT > ZF8


Lets stay focused on the M235i. Do we know for a fact it will be the ZF8 or is there a small, even remote chance it will get a DCT?

I would say no, it will most likely be manual standard then the Sport ZF 8spd w/ paddles as an option

Hope I'm wrong, I would pay a little extra to get the M-DCT

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

How will you order your ///M235i? Please vote and discuss!

As a ragtop.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

You are both probably correct. DCT > ZF8


Lets stay focused on the M235i. Do we know for a fact it will be the ZF8 or is there a small, even remote chance it will get a DCT?

Going by what is in the M135i it will be the 8sp.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by numbersguy

My 535i has the 8 speed. Shifts using the paddles are instantaneous and there is no torque converter slippage whatsoever. It is functionally the same as DCT. The car is heavy and underpowered so it isn't much on the fun scale, but a DCT wouldn't get those shifts any quicker than this automatic.

That said, I'm undecided about manual vs. auto for the m235i. The auto performs better without a doubt and who doesn't want the quicker car? Reality is, I won't track this car and the performance edge of the automatic means nothing on the street. That's why I'm leaning toward the 6 speed.

it's not the same. a DCT is so much better as a system compared to the ZF. the ZF gearbox has 'speed'...but that doesn't translate into a comparable driving experience IMO. The difference comes when you REALLY drive aggressively and upshift/downshift immediately and through the gears. The ZF gets stuck and lags.....and still feels like a torque converted automatic. The dual clutch definitely does NOT. You can't bog down a dual clutch unless you are senselessly clicking buttons. With the ZF, it feels lost most of the time.....

I have driven at least 5 different cars with 8 speed ZF automatic gearboxes across BMW and Audi..most of them for extended test drives as loaners----and all of them felt substandard to a dual clutch gearbox....not just by a little bit----but by a measurable standard. They don't feel as active or as mechanical. I've owned an Audi dual clutch gearbox in the past----and BMW, Porsche, and Audi make the best dual clutch gearboxes around. It's a shame that BMW won't be bringing the DCT from the 135 to the 235. probably a 'cost savings' measure as the ZF gearboxes are significantly cheaper.

The reality is that the 'regular' consumers really don't care what gearbox is in it---as long as it's an 'automatic'. The average consumer does not know the difference between a dual clutch and a torque converted automatic. The more 'enthused' driver really cares, however BMW have probably realised its not worth their time or maintenance (more on a dual clutch box) to bring the DCT on the 'entry level' enthusiast coupe.

[Transfer]

Yeah to the average person when they ask what transmission I have and I say dual clutch you can see the wheels turning in their head like "two clutches? wtf how do you drive with an extra pedal?" and if I try to explain they're like "oh yeah I have that in my [insert really boring car here]. I never shift it though". And then they usually go back to the two pedal confusion. haha

Anyway back to the 2er, I hope the manual is similar to whatever is going in the M3/4.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Transfer

Anyway back to the 2er, I hope the manual is similar to whatever is going in the M3/4.

Any good reviews out there of the manual gearbox in the M135i? I know the Chris Harris review was done with an 8sp auto.