[stevehecht]

There's something in running 45mpg in a 328 BMW that appeals to me. What doesn't appeal to me is 180hp and the lax acceleration that it saddles you with at certain times. So that makes me think about engine boost. What's out there now for the 328d? In a very cursory search I came upon this British website, but nothing else! What's happening on our side of the pond?

Does anyone know about these guys?

http://www.chipexpress.com/products/4238/

Diesel Tuning Chip for BMW 3 Series F30 328d 183PS / 135kW / 180bhp

Release the true power, economy and driveability of your BMW - safely, easily and in minutes! CHIP Express™ have a plug-in upgrade for you! Unlike "generic" diesel tuning systems, this unit has been specifically programmed to get the best from your BMW 3 Series F30 328d. And because the chip works in harmony with your engine's ECU rather than replacing it, all engine safety functions are retained. What's more, the system can be just as easily removed, leaving no trace of fitment, returning your vehicle to factory standard at any time.

The CHIP Express™ system simply plugs in using connectors which are identical to those originally fitted by the manufacturer - there are no wires to cut, just follow the supplied photo-instructions for your specific engine and you'll have the job done in minutes. Once installed, you will immediately feel the transformation. You'll pull away with ease, climb hills effortlessly, use less fuel and enjoy extra reserves of power when you need them. Your whole driving experience will be enhanced thanks to the significant boosts in both power and torque. You'll feel the improved acceleration, the cleaner, crisper response to the throttle and enjoy smoother gear changes – turbo lag and hesitation off the mark will be eliminated making for a more linear delivery of performance, particularly at low RPM's; you'll also appreciate a reduction in engine noise. Remember while most tuning companies aim to provide maximum power our aim is to also refine your vehicles drivability and flexibility in gear, providing a wider spread of usable performance where you need it most!

Buy with absolute confidence, every CHIP Express™ system now comes with a 3 year product warranty and our no quibble 14 days from receipt money back guarantee if you don't feel the difference on your very first test drive! Free your F30 328d from its manufacturer's limits: Order your digital tuning chip safely online today!

Diesel Tuning Chip

BEFORE 183 PS 135 kW / 180 bhp 380 Nm 280 lbf/ft
AFTER 219 PS 61 kW / 216 bhp 445 Nm 328 lbf/ft
MAX 241 PS 177 kW / 238 bhp 512 Nm 378 lbf/ft

All chips come pre-set for optimal power and economy so adjustment is not necessary: you can simply plug-in and enjoy! After figures show the power your vehicle will produce on the supplied settings. Max figures show the power your vehicle can produce on a higher setting. Not all vehicles will achieve Max figures when on a higher setting, most standard vehicles will achieve a power between After and Max figures. To fine-tune your system simply remove the rear end of the module where you can make small incremental adjustments above or below the supplied setting using the power selector within, easy to do and fully explained in instructions supplied.

And there's a nifty moving diagram on the page that shows just how easy this plug-in is--even easier than the BMS Stage 1, I believe. No disconnecting the battery, etc.
__________________

[stevehecht]

Here's another player, RaceChip.com, from Germany:

http://www.racechip.com/chiptuning/b...34kw/index.php

BMW 3er F30-F35

Hint: The performance data shown here represents maximum values achievable. The real performance output depends on the serial tolerances of the vehicle. We deliver the RaceChip with the best possible setting for your vehicle type. You can adjust the performance according to your requirements on the RaceChip.

Serial condition (stock)
134 kW 182 HP 380 Nm

BMW 3er 3er (F30-F35) 328d RaceChip Performance chartRaceChip
Tuning Changing
165 kW + 23%
224 HP + 23%
475 Nm + 25%
up to 1l / 100km

BMW 3er 3er (F30-F35) 328d RaceChip
ST62 (8MHz)
8bit
12 Mio.
Sub-D
Aluminium
7,4 cm × 6,3 cm × 3,4 cm


http://www.racechip.com/chiptuning-what-is-it/

http://www.racechip.com/the-racechip-company/

http://www.racechip.com/technology-quality/

This looks a lot more promising.

https://www.racechip-usa.com/products/racechip/

I wrote to the email listed on this URL to see if this is actually a RaceChip distributor in the states. Here's the reply:

"Yes besides our home office in Germany we have offices in countries to offer sales and support in those countries, e.g. US, because vehicles do have minor differences in various markets so this way we can better support customers and the product with feet on the ground so to say.

Lifetime warranty on the module is handled through the US operation for modules bought in the US."

I've encouraged him to do a promotion on this forum and bimmerfest.

__________________

[glangford]

I'd refute the claim of lax acceleration. Yea,it's not the fastest BMW, but its damn quick with all the torque.

It's probable that aftermarket tuning might violate US emission requirements. If BMW sells enough of these maybe they'll bring their PPK 0ver here.

[stevehecht]

I just heard from Terry at BMS that the JBD is compatible with the N47. He estimates 15% boost, but no dyno testing has been done.

[Ictus]

Boxes that connects to just only common rail sucks! Use boxes with connection to injectors or Performance power kit.

[shag]

Too bad the PPK isn't available in NA. I'd certainly go for it if the price was right.

Judging from what I've read online, there's no way to order it from Europe and retrofit it to our cars as it entails DME programming and an activation code (FSC).

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by Ictus

Boxes that connects to just only common rail sucks! Use boxes with connection to injectors or Performance power kit.

I know that the Kelleners module works directly with the injectors, what they call "the main injection time". http://www.kelleners-sport.com/downl...n_englisch.pdf. Do the other high-end tuner boxes work in the same way?

Both tuning boxes and ECU mapping have their pros and cons. After coming across an excellent company/website called Promotec out of South Africa I've decided, at least while the car is still on warranty, to go with a high-end tuning box. That category would not include RaceChip or BMS, but would include Kellener, Hartge, Schnitzer (too many $$$), or Promotec. This decision is based on this statement from the Promotec FAQ page:

Piggy-back and plug-and-play systems, inherently by nature, cannot provide the same level of control and therefore cannot match the results [as ECU mapping], although some high end versions come very close. However, some "cheap and nasty" plug-in systems also have the risk of causing damage to a vehicle. BE WARNED - If it's too cheap and easy, you will end up paying more later by fixing the damage it does.

http://www.promotec.co.za/faqs.html

This is an interesting and short thread from S.A. with someone from Promotec commenting:

Why do you think that Hartge, Alpina, Schnitzer, Kelleners and Promotec are using the very same hardware BUT NOT Racechip?

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=48478

I take that hardware to be this:

Promotec signed a development contract with Germany's top of the list manufacturer for Multichannel Plug'n Play Piggyback Systems in the BMW tuning sector and offer from now on their own Plug'n Play System!

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=46877

Does anyone know anything about this "Multichannel Plug 'n Play Piggyback System" or what he might be referring to?

Here is Promotec's FAQ page, whichI found to be remarkably honest. That makes me trust their integrity: http://www.promotec.co.za/faqs.html

This is another informative page on tuner staging: http://www.promotec.co.za/tuning-stages.html Whoever he is, this guy knows how to write.

Edit: My jury is still out on the JBD. I tend to be a believer in "you get what you pay for," and--no disrespect to BMS--I will presume for now that the "high-end" boxes are kinder to the engine and to the environment. But before I buy I will do my due diligence to make sure the difference is real.

[Ictus]

Originally Posted by stevehecht

I know that the Kelleners module works directly with the injectors, what they call "the main injection time". http://www.kelleners-sport.com/downl...n_englisch.pdf. Do the other high-end tuner boxes work in the same way?

Both tuning boxes and ECU mapping have their pros and cons. After coming across an excellent company/website called Promotec out of South Africa I've decided, at least while the car is still on warranty, to go with a high-end tuning box. That category would not include RaceChip or BMS, but would include Kellener, Hartge, Schnitzer (too many $$$), or Promotec. This decision is based on this statement from the Promotec FAQ page:

http://www.promotec.co.za/faqs.html

This is an interesting and short thread from S.A. with someone from Promotec commenting:


http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=48478

I take that hardware to be this:

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthread.php?tid=46877

Does anyone know anything about this "Multichannel Plug 'n Play Piggyback System" or what he might be referring to?

Here is Promotec's FAQ page, whichI found to be remarkably honest. That makes me trust their integrity: http://www.promotec.co.za/faqs.html

This is another informative page on tuner staging: http://www.promotec.co.za/tuning-stages.html Whoever he is, this guy knows how to write.

Edit: My jury is still out on the JBD. I tend to be a believer in "you get what you pay for," and--no disrespect to BMS--I will presume for now that the "high-end" boxes are kinder to the engine and to the environment. But before I buy I will do my due diligence to make sure the difference is real.

Is there any dyno stand data with the Promotec or JBD result? Can they prove their announced increasions?

Everything is simple! If you can't order PPK use expensive boxes with injectors connections like AC Schnitzer:


Hartge, Kelleners and Steinbauer are the same.
My friend is going to order Hartge box for his 320dx and i'll give you real results.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Ictus

Hartge, Kelleners and Steinbauer are the same.
My friend is going to order Hartge box for his 320dx and i'll give you real results.

Please keep us informed of its performance vs the OEM PPK.

[robbiep]

Interestingly ...

In the UK and Europe, what is sold in the USA as the 328d is called the 320d.
We also have a 325d, which is a modified 320d (twin-turbo, other uprated components) putting out 218 bhp (222bhp for 2014MY)

The Chip / tuning box might come with a lifetime warranty, but the question is whether thechip/tuning box company will cover your engine/turbo in the event of it going bang, and BMW telling you to take a hike due to modifications.

If BMW reckon it takes an additional turbocharger, additional oil cooler, uprated oil pump to get that bhp, then I'd be dubious about the longevity on my engine from the tuning box modification.
But then again, I've got the 325d already

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Interestingly ...

In the UK and Europe, what is sold in the USA as the 328d is called the 320d.
We also have a 325d, which is a modified 320d (twin-turbo, other uprated components) putting out 218 bhp (222bhp for 2014MY)

The Chip / tuning box might come with a lifetime warranty, but the question is whether thechip/tuning box company will cover your engine/turbo in the event of it going bang, and BMW telling you to take a hike due to modifications.

If BMW reckon it takes an additional turbocharger, additional oil cooler, uprated oil pump to get that bhp, then I'd be dubious about the longevity on my engine from the tuning box modification.
But then again, I've got the 325d already

Could you tell us exactly how the 325d powertrain differs from the 320d to the best of your knowledge? This is very important information. Do you have a URL that details the differences between the two cars? Thanks!

[lmaleke]

Originally Posted by stevehecht

Could you tell us exactly how the 325d powertrain differs from the 320d to the best of your knowledge? This is very important information. Do you have a URL that details the differences between the two cars? Thanks!

IIRC from bmwoemparts website, the turbo on the 325d is a variable nozzle turbo (VNT) where as the unit on the 320d is a single nozzle

[lmaleke]

Originally Posted by shag

Too bad the PPK isn't available in NA. I'd certainly go for it if the price was right.

Judging from what I've read online, there's no way to order it from Europe and retrofit it to our cars as it entails DME programming and an activation code (FSC).

There are certain parameters for a successful DME PPK (re)programming for 320d (328d in US jargon) and one is depends on the type of diesel available, i.e. on the cetane numbers and the ppm. I'm sure the diesel fuel in the states have 52 cetane at least. By that, theoretically, the PPK for diesel should be doable. I guess no stealers in the States have done this nor reported try to do this PPK for diesel cars. Understandable since F30 diesel variants are still new for US market.
Just to give you an illustration, here in Indonesia the PPK for diesel is available and doable all while our best cetane numbers are at 51. The stealers here are doing this mod based on a per-request basis..

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by lmaleke

IIRC from bmwoemparts website, the turbo on the 325d is a variable nozzle turbo (VNT) where as the unit on the 320d is a single nozzle

My understanding is that the N47S1 engine in the 325d has a 2-stage sequential ("double-scroll") TwinPower turbo while the N47D20 engine in the 320d/328d has the variable vane ("single-scroll") TwinPower turbo. But BMW terminology has produced a lot of confusion everywhere, so that's my best guess right now.

[Ictus]

Originally Posted by stevehecht

My understanding is that the N47S1 engine in the 325d has a 2-stage sequential ("double-scroll") TwinPower turbo while the N47D20 engine in the 320d/328d has the variable vane ("single-scroll") TwinPower turbo. But BMW terminology has produced a lot of confusion everywhere, so that's my best guess right now.

Yes.
320d/328d has single turbo:


325d has 2 turbos:

[robbiep]

Many thanks to Ictus for getting that information

So, as I said.
BMW reckon that they need twin turbochargers to get that 218 BHP in the 325d, along with a considerably larger oil cooler, a larger more powerful cooling fan, and (from what I understand) a larger oil pump too.

And yet the tuning companies reckon they can 'chip' the 320d/328d to the same, or even slightly higher power.

Ask the tuning companies what sort of guarantee they offer if your engine/turbo goes bang, and BMW tell you to take a hike due to the modifications. Not the guarantee on the chip/box, but will they cover your new engine costs. Then you'll find out how much they REALLY believe in their product, and the effect it has on engine longevity

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by robbiep

Many thanks to Ictus for getting that information

So, as I said.
BMW reckon that they need twin turbochargers to get that 218 BHP in the 325d, along with a considerably larger oil cooler, a larger more powerful cooling fan, and (from what I understand) a larger oil pump too.

I can't speak to the presence of a larger oil pump in the 325d (easily found out though), but I can say with certitude that the PPK for the 320d does not include a larger oil pump, only the larger radiator fan and intercooler (not oil cooler). (See my thread in this forum: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=928426) This would seem to indicate that BMW is comfortable with increasing the N47d20 to 325d levels with the larger radiator fan that ALREADY exists in the 328d and the larger intercooler that ALREADY exists in the 328d. Problem solved--more or less. What remains to be decided (for me) is which is the safer of the available tuning boxes on the market, a less expensive box like BMS' JBD or one of the more expensive German boxes like Hartge, Kelleners Sport, Schnitzer, Steinbauer, etc.

[robbiep]

I think you may have misunderstood what I said, so I'll rephrase it.

BMW send the 'stock' 320d/328d out, and will put the PPK on it. Comprising an uprated fan, uprated intercooler, and ECU changes (and other incidental bits). This gives (roughly) an extra 16 BHP, going from 181 to 197

BMW also do the 325d. This contains a twin-turbo, rather than the turbo in the 320d, and a larger intercooler, ECU (assumed) and fan. Possibly other parts (exhaust manifold, etc) too. This is 218 BHP (possibly 222 BHP for 2014)

The aftermarket tuners reckon they can get the 325d BHP figures (or slightly higher) out of a stock 320d mechanicals JUST by changing the ECU. Nothing else.
Chipexpress say 216 BHP
Racechip say 224 HP (about 221 BHP)


I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Ask the aftermarket tuners what warranty they will give on your engine and turbocharger, if it all goes bang, and BMW tell you to get stuffed due to mods. If none of them will cover you, then ask if you really want to go down that route, or if you should spend the extra on the PPK, and have the assurance that BMW will pick up the bill if it goes wrong

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by robbiep

I think you may have misunderstood what I said, so I'll rephrase it.

BMW send the 'stock' 320d/328d out, and will put the PPK on it. Comprising an uprated fan, uprated intercooler, and ECU changes (and other incidental bits). This gives (roughly) an extra 16 BHP, going from 181 to 197

BMW also do the 325d. This contains a twin-turbo, rather than the turbo in the 320d, and a larger intercooler, ECU (assumed) and fan. Possibly other parts (exhaust manifold, etc) too. This is 218 BHP (possibly 222 BHP for 2014)

The aftermarket tuners reckon they can get the 325d BHP figures (or slightly higher) out of a stock 320d mechanicals JUST by changing the ECU. Nothing else.
Chipexpress say 216 BHP
Racechip say 224 HP (about 221 BHP)


I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Ask the aftermarket tuners what warranty they will give on your engine and turbocharger, if it all goes bang, and BMW tell you to get stuffed due to mods. If none of them will cover you, then ask if you really want to go down that route, or if you should spend the extra on the PPK, and have the assurance that BMW will pick up the bill if it goes wrong

OK, I understand now, but the PPK for the 328d (or i) is not currently available in NA. So, what to do if you want some extra power?

As I've said, the 328d already comes with the uprated radiator fan and intercooler. A PPK on this car would increase hp to 197 without a twin turbo. The German piggybacks I'm considering increase hp to 215, or 9% more than the PPK would at 197--neither with the twin turbo.

Am I willing to take a chance that a high-end box from a manufacturer (not RaceChip or the like--I'm past that) with extensive experience with BMW engines and with sophisticated electronics and sensor inputs to the injectors will be able to do a decent job without endangering the engine, given this 9% difference? Yes. I'm talking Kelleners Sport, Steinbauer, Hartge, Schnitzer (this last is way expensive but you get an engine warranty).

[Ictus]

Originally Posted by robbiep

I think you may have misunderstood what I said, so I'll rephrase it.

BMW send the 'stock' 320d/328d out, and will put the PPK on it. Comprising an uprated fan, uprated intercooler, and ECU changes (and other incidental bits). This gives (roughly) an extra 16 BHP, going from 181 to 197

BMW also do the 325d. This contains a twin-turbo, rather than the turbo in the 320d, and a larger intercooler, ECU (assumed) and fan. Possibly other parts (exhaust manifold, etc) too. This is 218 BHP (possibly 222 BHP for 2014)

The aftermarket tuners reckon they can get the 325d BHP figures (or slightly higher) out of a stock 320d mechanicals JUST by changing the ECU. Nothing else.
Chipexpress say 216 BHP
Racechip say 224 HP (about 221 BHP)


I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Ask the aftermarket tuners what warranty they will give on your engine and turbocharger, if it all goes bang, and BMW tell you to get stuffed due to mods. If none of them will cover you, then ask if you really want to go down that route, or if you should spend the extra on the PPK, and have the assurance that BMW will pick up the bill if it goes wrong

don't trust the dyno results. There a lot of ways to cheat them. The real effect is on the wheels. Comparing to the stock or PPK. Believe me, no box is not going to declared result. If PPK gives 200 horsepower, the box is clearly not give more.

Originally Posted by stevehecht

OK, I understand now, but the PPK for the 328d (or i) is not currently available in NA. So, what to do if you want some extra power?

As I've said, the 328d already comes with the uprated radiator fan and intercooler. A PPK on this car would increase hp to 197 without a twin turbo. The German piggybacks I'm considering increase hp to 215, or 9% more than the PPK would at 197--neither with the twin turbo.

Am I willing to take a chance that a high-end box from a manufacturer (not RaceChip or the like--I'm past that) with extensive experience with BMW engines and with sophisticated electronics and sensor inputs to the injectors will be able to do a decent job without endangering the engine, given this 9% difference? Yes. I'm talking Kelleners Sport, Steinbauer, Hartge, Schnitzer (this last is way expensive but you get an engine warranty).

Relax dude! Stay tune!) I'm going to combine PPK with expensive box (99% it would be Steinbauer). I can not say when because I spent all the money available to this fckin' wheels.

Hope my friend will combine PPK with Hartge box earlier. He already finished making m-pack for his 320dx havana:


I'll try to shot video of 335i M-performance exhaust sound on his car if you're interested.

[robbiep]

Originally Posted by stevehecht

OK, I understand now, but the PPK for the 328d (or i) is not currently available in NA. So, what to do if you want some extra power?

As I've said, the 328d already comes with the uprated radiator fan and intercooler. A PPK on this car would increase hp to 197 without a twin turbo. The German piggybacks I'm considering increase hp to 215, or 9% more than the PPK would at 197--neither with the twin turbo.

Am I willing to take a chance that a high-end box from a manufacturer (not RaceChip or the like--I'm past that) with extensive experience with BMW engines and with sophisticated electronics and sensor inputs to the injectors will be able to do a decent job without endangering the engine, given this 9% difference? Yes. I'm talking Kelleners Sport, Steinbauer, Hartge, Schnitzer (this last is way expensive but you get an engine warranty).

The way I see it, there are 3 real choices for you, if you want more power.

1. Buy a different car/engine combo. 330d, 335d, etc
2. Get an AC Schnitzer upgrade. Expensive, but at least you won't be up the creek without a paddle if something blows up.
3. Get a cheap upgrade. No nice feeling like in (2) above though.

Actually, there is a fourth choice ...
4. Accept that there are always compromises on power if you want the economy that you get out of a 320d/328d.

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by robbiep

The way I see it, there are 3 real choices for you, if you want more power.

1. Buy a different car/engine combo. 330d, 335d, etc
2. Get an AC Schnitzer upgrade. Expensive, but at least you won't be up the creek without a paddle if something blows up.
3. Get a cheap upgrade. No nice feeling like in (2) above though.

Actually, there is a fourth choice ...
4. Accept that there are always compromises on power if you want the economy that you get out of a 320d/328d.

Actually, there's a fifth alternative.

The Schnitzer, Kelleners Sport, Hartge and Steinbauer are the same hardware with different programming. The reason the Schnitzer is 3x more expensive than the others is because it comes with a standard 2-year warranty on the engine. I'll take my chances and and choose the 5th alternative: save the $3K and get a Kelleners Sport or Hartge TB. That's a rational middle ground IMHO.