[SINGH_]

Original Thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926184

Here are my new Datalogs, I ran all of the 20(E85)/80(9 Octane) fuel mix until the fuel tank was near empty (displayed "--.-- mls") then proceeded to fill the fuel tank with 91 octane until full/topped it off. Now we can get a proper baseline and see if and why my fuel trims are maxing out/as well as how my air/fuel ratios are doing. Also what my OL should be set to?

I reset commands 12 to 4 in mode 3 from the command center at the gas station before starting the car back up...

My mods are the following: PROcede with 7-29 Autotuning Maps and DCI running on only 91 Octane

I ran DSC/DTC off, First Map 1 in 100% OL... then switched to Map 2 in 100% OL... and then opened up my "User Adjustable Parameters", adjusted the OL to 0% and then Datalogged two more runs... one in Map 2 and the other in Map 1.

Hopefully this can provide enough information so we can sort all this out.

Thank you!

[SINGH_]

new to tuning:
what do i need to change?

[SINGH_]

MAP 1 [100% OL]:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7M...it?usp=sharing

MAP 2 [100% OL]
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7M...it?usp=sharing

[135Pats]

Any chance you can post those logs in datazap? You'll get far more eyes on with that format.

[SINGH_]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Any chance you can post those logs in datazap? You'll get far more eyes on with that format.

Thank you for that suggestion! never knew such a website existed

[SINGH_]

[dataZAP]

MAP 1 [100% OL]:
http://datazap.me/u/simarjit/map-1-100-ol

MAP 2 [100% OL]
http://datazap.me/u/simarjit/map-2-100-ol

[135Pats]

Man...those aren't good brother, I won't sugar coat.

In all of those logs, your car is fighting itself trying to sort fueling. You are spiking WAY lean early on, AFRs approaching 17 are unacceptable on pump gas, regardless of this being DI. Trims peg quickly and stay pegged, so the DME is adding in as much fuel as is possible (likely to compensate for the serious lean condition early on). Then your AFR nose dives into the 11s- that in and of itself is all well and good but you shouldn't be seeing anywhere near that drastic a change in a single gear pull.

So these are pump gas maps, with 91 octane? My knowledge of the PROcede is elementary, so I don't want to give you poor advice. Do you have a means of reviewing the fuel scalars for this map? Get in touch with Vishnu, your car is not happy.

[SINGH_]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Man...those aren't good brother, I won't sugar coat.

In all of those logs, your car is fighting itself trying to sort fueling. You are spiking WAY lean early on, AFRs approaching 17 are unacceptable on pump gas, regardless of this being DI. Trims peg quickly and stay pegged, so the DME is adding in as much fuel as is possible (likely to compensate for the serious lean condition early on). Then your AFR nose dives into the 11s- that in and of itself is all well and good but you shouldn't be seeing anywhere near that drastic a change in a single gear pull.

So these are pump gas maps, with 91 octane? My knowledge of the PROcede is elementary, so I don't want to give you poor advice. Do you have a means of reviewing the fuel scalars for this map? Get in touch with Vishnu, your car is not happy.

awww man, this wasn't what i was looking to hear :/
i'm glad you didn't sugar coat it! do you have any ideas what could be causing this? i have contacted vishnu, they are only an hour or so drive away from me. i'm hoping they can help me sort this. i have no idea how to access fuel scalars for this map. what do you think could be causing this? the programming itself? is my car hitting dangerous air/fuel ratios?

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by E92 N54

awww man, this wasn't what i was looking to hear :/
i'm glad you didn't sugar coat it! do you have any ideas what could be causing this? i have contacted vishnu, they are only an hour or so drive away from me. i'm hoping they can help me sort this. i have no idea how to access fuel scalars for this map. what do you think could be causing this? the programming itself? is my car hitting dangerous air/fuel ratios?

In my opinion, AFR spikes approaching 17 are dangerously lean, especially when your targeting stoich for pump gas. E85 you can lean out a good deal on DI platforms, but here you're just running 91 pump. I'd refrain from getting into WOT too much until you have this sorted.

As to the cause...man it could be so many things. The DME's response to the lean condition makes sense, you can see fuel trims peg very quickly after the lean condition, and then AFRs settle to a far more acceptable 11-12 ratio.

I'm 100% guessing here, but it's likely something to do with the way the PROcede is communicating to the car. Somewhere along the line, fueling targets are being jumbled. This doesn't seem like a hardware issue to me. Hence why I asked about the fuel scalars for these maps, I simply don't know what the PROcede targets. You are running piggyback only which fundamentally limits the amount of fuel you can provide down low, but that is no reason to see the issues we're seeing here.

Get in touch with Shiv over the phone or in person and get this sorted.

[135Pats]

Honestly for the time being I would have the PROcede running passive, so stock tables to the greatest extent possible. Don't risk melting something over what could be as simple as a firmware revision, or a table that needs simple modification. I'm sure Shiv can get this handled in short order.

[jdbretz]

The settings you are running for the 7-29 maps are wrong. I would honestly update the Procede to the newer aggressive maps if you have a Rev2.5 or Rev3. The fueling is much better. If you wish to continue running the 7-29 maps (or have an older Rev2), you should reload the firmware, then load the map and leave everything default. Its not ideal for the car to make such a drastic changes from 100% OL to 0%. The DME has to adapt to each change in the settings and especially right after you reset all the adaptations. Not trying to be a dick, but if you don't understand what those settings do, be careful adjusting them aimlessly. The OL fueling is adjustable from 0% to 100% not just 0 or 100. For the 7-29 maps with your mods, you should be around 70-85% on the OL fueling if I was guessing. You will need to enable the autotuning by changing the number next to Map1 from a "1" to a "2" You only need to run Map 1. On those maps, Map 2 was for race gas or if you run meth. With the 7-29 maps, it was common for the AFR to be lean on boost onset then settle at the appropriate AFR.

[AMERICUS]

Originally Posted by jdbretz

The settings you are running for the 7-29 maps are wrong. I would honestly update the Procede to the newer aggressive maps if you have a Rev2.5 or Rev3. The fueling is much better. If you wish to continue running the 7-29 maps (or have an older Rev2), you should reload the firmware, then load the map and leave everything default. Its not ideal for the car to make such a drastic changes from 100% OL to 0%. The DME has to adapt to each change in the settings and especially right after you reset all the adaptations. Not trying to be a dick, but if you don't understand what those settings do, be careful adjusting them aimlessly. The OL fueling is adjustable from 0% to 100% not just 0 or 100. For the 7-29 maps with your mods, you should be around 70-85% on the OL fueling if I was guessing. You will need to enable the autotuning by changing the number next to Map1 from a "1" to a "2" You only need to run Map 1. On those maps, Map 2 was for race gas or if you run meth. With the 7-29 maps, it was common for the AFR to be lean on boost onset then settle at the appropriate AFR.

+1

[135Pats]

Good answer @jdbretz, all sounds right to me but again i'm on pretty general terms when it comes to the PROcede. Sounds like a simple firmware update is needed for OP.

Lean spikes as boost comes on are one thing...but IMO pump gas maps leaning out to 17 for a decent duration of time is lazy tuning, or a piggyback that simply cannot provide enough fuel down low. I suppose this is why so many folks stack with OFT now a days to sort that part of it.

[jdbretz]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Good answer @jdbretz, all sounds right to me but again i'm on pretty general terms when it comes to the PROcede. Sounds like a simple firmware update is needed for OP.

Lean spikes as boost comes on are one thing...but IMO pump gas maps leaning out to 17 for a decent duration of time is lazy tuning, or a piggyback that simply cannot provide enough fuel down low. I suppose this is why so many folks stack with OFT now a days to sort that part of it.

I can understand your concerns with the lean spikes, but if you add the time portion of the log you will see it was only that lean for about 0.3 seconds. Those lean spikes are completely normal for the Procede and JB4 when they don't have a backend flash (OFT, Cobb, Vishnu Flash, etc). There is a specific flash table (lean spool) that is believed to intentionally lean out the AFR to assist in spool up causing that to happen, so there is nothing the piggyback can do by itself to get around that. The fueling of piggybacks alone aren't necessarily ideal on boost onset, but there is no danger from those very brief lean spikes.

The OP's fuel trims on the other hand are somewhat concerning. I would like to see some logs with a fresh firmware install (preferably with the newer aggressive maps), default settings, and reloading the maps. This will give a good baseline to troubleshoot off of. There were many cars that had problems when 100% OL was selected, but functioned fine on a lower setting. Your trims should not be maxing out at such a relatively low boost pressure, but there were several people I remember reading about that had to try several different maps before finding one their car agreed with. Before taking any logs though, be sure and give the car a little time to adapt. 3 3rd gear to redline WOT pulls with adequate cool down between should let the car adapt and then we will have a better idea of what is going on.

[135Pats]

Hadn't considered lean spool behavior in terms of how it interacts (or more accurately, how it doesn't interact) with piggys that hijack the CAN. Good point for sure. I don't think OP seriously risks melting anything, but coming from flash only world, that type of lean spike just looks bizarre to me.

Yea as much as anything OP needs to revise the firmware, pick a map, and let the adaptations take place. The car is likely baffled by the frequency of map changes.

[SINGH_]

Thank you guys! it really means alot. I am also starting to think its firmware issues... it seems like my parameters change by themselves. When i installed the firmware maps, it was giving some issues. Disconnected me a few times while updating maps/firmware. Not sure that caused issues... my maps were on autotuning enabled... yet when i took the screenshot to upload they're off. odd. also my OL was set to 0% by the map... before i adjusted anything.

this morning i updated to the aggressive maps as jdbretz suggest. ive been driving it around today, i will be able to do some runs tonight and get you guys some new dataZap logs tonight after work.

i just updated the firmware, then installed the 6AT Stage 1 map... did not touch anything after that.

did i install the correct stage? (mods: dci, procede 2.5, and a vrsf charge pipe/tial bov...)

[SINGH_]

NEW DATALOGS:

[Aggressive 9-10] Map 1 [Run 1]:
http://datazap.me/u/simarjit/aggress...10-map-1-run-1

[Aggressive 9-10] Map 1 [Run 2]:
http://datazap.me/u/simarjit/aggress...10-map-1-run-2

[135Pats]

Those are still rough. Still seeing the same fuel issue- a big ole lean spike on spool/approaching peak boost, followed by pegged trims as the DME attempts to compensate and richen things up.

You have a big, big timing drop especially in that first log. These are so messy, I really think it's a tuning or software issue. If it's hardware, I don't know where to begin. The boost curve is more or less fine looking, but on the fuel side your car is seriously unhappy.

[SINGH_]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Those are still rough. Still seeing the same fuel issue- a big ole lean spike on spool/approaching peak boost, followed by pegged trims as the DME attempts to compensate and richen things up.

You have a big, big timing drop especially in that first log. These are so messy, I really think it's a tuning or software issue. If it's hardware, I don't know where to begin. The boost curve is more or less fine looking, but on the fuel side your car is seriously unhappy.

I was seriously thinking it was getting better after doing a comparison of the fuel trims, comparison attached.

I don't know what it could be :/ hopefully vishnu can help on this... i can't think of anything i could do to help the situation.

How are my AF ratios? Is the new tune at least safe even if it isn't performing well? That is my biggest concern

[SINGH_]

Can anyone send me a datalog/datazap for a ideal procede tune? so I know what my graphs should be looking like.

[AlpineSwift]

Looking at both runs on the aggressive, your AFR is pegging 17-20 around 4400-4900 rpm on run #1 and you aren't even at peak boost. Its a similar but not quite as scary story with run #2.

Normally, spikes as jdbretz said, aren't a cause for concern as they tend to happen for instance when letting off the throttle (IE: Shifting gears). Factoring in the fuel trims is where it gets interesting. Based on the readings in both runs and the suggestions posted between your previous thread and this one, I'd like to offer a different suggestion.

Check your connections on the chargepipe, intakes, bov, etc and while you're in there clean the MAF. I might be way off base here but if you don't have a vacuum leak anywhere then I suspect the MAF is getting false readings which is in turn making the car try to correct them itself.

If nothing else even if I'm wrong, it will give you an opportunity to confirm it isn't a hardware related issue.

[SINGH_]

Originally Posted by AlpineSwift

Looking at both runs on the aggressive, your AFR is pegging 17-20 around 4400-4900 rpm on run #1 and you aren't even at peak boost. Its a similar but not quite as scary story with run #2.

Normally, spikes as jdbretz said, aren't a cause for concern as they tend to happen for instance when letting off the throttle (IE: Shifting gears). Factoring in the fuel trims is where it gets interesting. Based on the readings in both runs and the suggestions posted between your previous thread and this one, I'd like to offer a different suggestion.

Check your connections on the chargepipe, intakes, bov, etc and while you're in there clean the MAF. I might be way off base here but if you don't have a vacuum leak anywhere then I suspect the MAF is getting false readings which is in turn making the car try to correct them itself.

If nothing else even if I'm wrong, it will give you an opportunity to confirm it isn't a hardware related issue.

Thank you! I will check all my plumbing and retighten it. Do these cars have MAF sensors? if so, where would it be located?