[Mick_DC]

When purchasing a BMW, what makes up the invoice price?

Using the 335i base price to keeps it simple, if a dealer says that they are selling you the vehicle at invoice, should the price be:

1.
MSRP = 43400
Invoice = 39930

or

2.
MSRP = 43400
Invoice = 39930 + MACO and Training fees (430) = 40360

If a dealer looks you in the eye and says that 2. is the invoice price and also expects a perfect score on the dealer survey, would you give it to them?

I realize that a lot more than price goes into the experience of buying a BMW. Having said that, in case of 2., would you feel that the dealer has been honest and straightforward with you and has integrity?

[949]

what is maco and training fees?

[Mick_DC]

Originally Posted by 949

what is maco and training fees?

From Edmunds:

"The MACO fee covers the dealer's local advertising fees. The amount of this fee is based on the region your dealer is located in and varies between regions. Both the MACO and training service fees are legitimate fees which BMW NA charges the dealers."

According to this, these are legitimate fees that make up the invoice price.

I suppose, one way or another, the dealer includes these fees in the invoice price they give us. Therefore, 2. in my original post seems to be the correct way to arrive at the invoice price. It will be great to hear the opinions/experiences of others on this forum.

[JasonX4MComp]

Number 2 is the invoice and it is even printed on it. Ask them to show you if you have any doubt

[949]

wow. i have never seen the word maco or training fees before and i have bought cars a lot.

im not sure where your buying your car but i guess there isnt too many dealerships in your local area so they come up with these extra fees to make a little more on the top.

i get a few people who are comming from other states asking to buy from socal dealerships and i never understood why. now i can see some reasons people are buying from other states.

remember guys dealerships makes around 10k to 17k per car. obviously they need to pay overhead but to charge these extra fees, its amazing how they can sleep at night.

as for them giving you the eye treatment and stating that, well salesmen are grifters is all. some are good and some are not so good but they need to be to sell you something this expensive.

most of us are now getting cars below the invoice numbers. use this as your evaluation for now. the demand for the 3 series have gone down and they will go down even more with the introduction of the 2 series.

[Deleted853]

Originally Posted by 949

wow. i have never seen the word maco or training fees before and i have bought cars a lot.

im not sure where your buying your car but i guess there isnt too many dealerships in your local area so they come up with these extra fees to make a little more on the top.

i get a few people who are comming from other states asking to buy from socal dealerships and i never understood why. now i can see some reasons people are buying from other states.

remember guys dealerships makes around 10k to 17k per car. obviously they need to pay overhead but to charge these extra fees, its amazing how they can sleep at night.

as for them giving you the eye treatment and stating that, well salesmen are grifters is all. some are good and some are not so good but they need to be to sell you something this expensive.

most of us are now getting cars below the invoice numbers. use this as your evaluation for now. the demand for the 3 series have gone down and they will go down even more with the introduction of the 2 series.

That number you're quoting for their margin feels incredibly high....

[949]

Originally Posted by Mwm1166

That number you're quoting for their margin feels incredibly high....

yes it did to me before too. until someone who works at a bmw dealership told me. of course its before all the overhead costs.

have you seen owners of dealerships?
they dont have millions by making only so called a hundred or two per transaction.

here is a local dealership story.
http://www.ocbj.com/news/2011/jul/12...s-crevier-bmw/

read that and you decide if they make a few hundreds on a deal or a few thousand per deal.

[F87_LCI]

Oh well if someone working at a dealership told you, then it must be true.

Average Dealer margin in NA is RARELY higher than 10% and more often is between 7 and 9% (I would assume it is close to that in Europe as well??). To make a profit of 10 to 17K (as you suggest above), this would be on cars priced between 100 and 170K. Not the bulk of cars coming off the floor of a BMW dealership...

...just because a guy with a dealership has money, it doesn't mean that new cars sales account for much (or any) of that. How many service bays does that dealership have? This is where they make money. I just got quoted $500 to install seven pieces of trim on an F30. $500. Seriously? Laughable...I think I'll do it myself thanks.

[949]

mauicoung... your ok with saying this on another post...

Originally Posted by mauicoug

I would offer about $4k under invoice, there is unseen trunk money out there...

but you dont believe the 10k +?

[e85sbm]

10k is a very large margin and is unrealistic in modern times. the margin is much closer to 7% as mentioned above.

UNLESS, you are referring to a domestic (Ford, Chevy, Dodge), I think they have a higher percentage of margin, but I cannot be certain as I have never looked at buying anything from them

[mlc1978]

These days when anyone can find out in minutes what the dealer's cost is, they're often selling below invoice. For any particular model, the deal you get is based on supply and demand, time of year, incentives from BMW, special rebate programs etc. Of course they have to make some profit, otherwise they would go out of business and there would be no dealer. Some of the fees are legitimate, some are just pure profit. $600 document fee for the guy to spend 15 minutes filling out some papers? Pure profit. But they might be selling the car to you for less than they paid for it. The service department is more profitable by far than the new car department.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Mick_DC

When purchasing a BMW, what makes up the invoice price?

Using the 335i base price to keeps it simple, if a dealer says that they are selling you the vehicle at invoice, should the price be:

1.
MSRP = 43400
Invoice = 39930

or

2.
MSRP = 43400
Invoice = 39930 + MACO and Training fees (430) = 40360

If a dealer looks you in the eye and says that 2. is the invoice price and also expects a perfect score on the dealer survey, would you give it to them?

I realize that a lot more than price goes into the experience of buying a BMW. Having said that, in case of 2., would you feel that the dealer has been honest and straightforward with you and has integrity?

Yes. Both MACO and the training fee are legitimate costs charged to the dealer by BMWNA in addition to the base invoice price.

Originally Posted by 949

wow. i have never seen the word maco or training fees before and i have bought cars a lot.

im not sure where your buying your car but i guess there isnt too many dealerships in your local area so they come up with these extra fees to make a little more on the top.

i get a few people who are comming from other states asking to buy from socal dealerships and i never understood why. now i can see some reasons people are buying from other states.

remember guys dealerships makes around 10k to 17k per car. obviously they need to pay overhead but to charge these extra fees, its amazing how they can sleep at night.

as for them giving you the eye treatment and stating that, well salesmen are grifters is all. some are good and some are not so good but they need to be to sell you something this expensive.

most of us are now getting cars below the invoice numbers. use this as your evaluation for now. the demand for the 3 series have gone down and they will go down even more with the introduction of the 2 series.

Not by ANY STRETCH of the imagination.