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      01-10-2014, 10:55 PM   #1
dixy2k
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Yahoo article on gassers vs diesel

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-...165326017.html

there is a comparison between 328i and 328d price wise and how long it will take to recoup the extra money paid for the diesel model.
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      01-26-2014, 11:43 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-...165326017.html

there is a comparison between 328i and 328d price wise and how long it will take to recoup the extra money paid for the diesel model.
Wow!

It would take 175000 to brake even with a X5 d vs 35i,lol!
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      01-31-2014, 11:32 PM   #3
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This article is not 100% entirely accurate for real world driving mpg. As a previous owner of a 335d I could tell you that real world mpg on diesel match or exceed what's advertised on the sticker. I used to get 18-23 mpg city and 33-38 mpg on highway depending on driving style. I am lucky to get 20mpg on the highway and 14 mpg in city even when driving like a grandma with the gasser Audi S4. The sticker says 21city-28hwy mpg! My average mpg is around 14mpg 50/50 mixed driving.

Buying the e90 335d was a no brainer 4 years ago because BMW sold it same price as a 335i with diesel credit on the D plus the $900 IRS credit off taxes was the icing on the cake.

I also noticed that Audi Q5 pricing is wrong. I am not sure which idiot wrote this article because it looks like they are comparing 2.0 premium model vs. 3.0TDI in Premium+. in P+ category the price difference between 3.0TFSI vs 3.0TDI is $2100 and not $9200.
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      02-01-2014, 02:26 PM   #4
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When you factor in the price of diesel being higher than gasoline, the cost of DEF, diesel additives, and excessive diesel maintenance, I can only see the gap widening.
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      02-11-2014, 02:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
When you factor in the price of diesel being higher than gasoline, the cost of DEF, diesel additives, and excessive diesel maintenance, I can only see the gap widening.
What diesel additives & excessive diesel maintenance?

Diesel costing more than gas is just a US thing because US government favored gas & hybrid in their taxation.

My 400K mile TDI has less required maintenance than even the G2 Prius that I traded in at 140K miles for this new F30dxD. Both my TDI and F30dxD avg better than the G2 Prius on my normal driving. The only time I got over 45MPG on the Prius was when I worked in Manhattan. 30 of the 45 minute ride was crawling through Lincoln tunnel.

This article is bogus. They compared 328d to 328i instead of a 320i, but compared a Jetta TDI to a Jetta S.
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      02-12-2014, 02:49 AM   #6
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In terms of 'excessive maintenance'

All the latest diesels have DPFs - petrol cars don't have these. Depending on the mileage you do, they can require major work anywhere from 10,000 miles in to 120,000 miles.

Modern diesels all have EGR valves (petrols do too), but diesel engine EGRs clog up a lot more easily due to the carbon/soot content.

Manual engined diesel cars all have DMF (dual mass flywheel) to absorb the torque shock from low gears. Again, not cheap, and with a limited lifespan.

The latest diesels have Adblue / additive. Once again, that needs replacing.

All these diesels have high pressure fuel systems and turbochargers - do YOU idle your engine for a minute or 2 at the end of a freeway/motorway run to let the turbo cool down ? If not, then the oil carbonises in the turbo bearings and eventually clogs the oil feed pipes. Result : blown turbo. Petrol engine turbos don't run as hot, so less likely to suffer the same problems (or the problems occur after a much higher mileage)
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      02-12-2014, 08:05 AM   #7
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Diesel running hotter than petrol? I wish. My TDI never give me heat until after 30 mins of driving. About 15 mins with my N47. My petrol/gas powered vehicles provide heat in less than 5 mins. Doesnt gas engine run in higher rpm than diesels?

I never had issues with clogged EGR on my 400K mile TDI. Probably because of my maintenance practice of adding injector cleaners (diesel purge) on the last fully consumed tank prior to 10K mile oil changes. Which by the way I also did (techron) on my gas engined vehicles, except at their 5K mi oil changes.

My TDI still have the original turbo, injectors, glow plugs & clutch.

I'm hoping this N47-engined F30 would last as long.
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      02-12-2014, 08:26 AM   #8
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Did I say that diesel ENGINES run hotter than petrol ones ? I must have missed that one, because I'm prettty sure I said the turbo.

What age was your TDi when gotten rid of (at 400k) because I've said, quite clearly, that almost all of these issues apply to the latest, modern diesel engines.

However, I'll entirely agree with you regarding your oil change interval. These 18k/20k mile intervals are destroying engines, timing chains and the like. 10k is the way to go, and I'll certainly be doing that with my F31.
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      02-12-2014, 09:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiep View Post
Did I say that diesel ENGINES run hotter than petrol ones ? I must have missed that one, because I'm prettty sure I said the turbo.

What age was your TDi when gotten rid of (at 400k) because I've said, quite clearly, that almost all of these issues apply to the latest, modern diesel engines.

However, I'll entirely agree with you regarding your oil change interval. These 18k/20k mile intervals are destroying engines, timing chains and the like. 10k is the way to go, and I'll certainly be doing that with my F31.
Still have the TDI. My TDI does not have the DEF. Why would diesel turbo be running hotter than gas turbo when spark ignition is hotter and operate at higher rpm than compression?
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      02-12-2014, 10:16 AM   #10
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Because a diesel engine turbo spins far faster than a petrol engine turbo - which is another matter altogether, but basically, diesel engines get more efficient with turbochargers sucking in huge volumes of air (which also cools the air, making the engine even more efficient), so diesel engine turbochargeers run at far higher RPM than petrol engine turbochargers. Faster = more heat in the turbo bearings to get rid of.
Turn off a diesel engine that is turbocharged when the turbo is at full heat, and the oil will carbonise in the oil feed pipes and bearings. Think of an artery being clogged up - just a little bit - each time. Do that enough times, and the turbo will eventually have the equivalent of a heart attack.
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      06-09-2014, 11:38 PM   #11
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Synthetic oil should not carbonize and has not in turbos since it has become the standard oil fill. New turbos don't need a "cooling off" period and have not for a long time. Nevertheless, idling the direct injection diesel at the end of a trip may cause more carbon buildup in the intake, so shutting off the car as it is parked except in extreme use is the order of the day.

If I just got off from a high power drive and quickly stopped to park, idling would make sense. It is likely not so important with newer turbos. None of my last 4 turbo-diesel owners' manuals had such advice, though.

My first turbo was a 1989 Volvo 760 which loved synthetic oil when I switched over.

Last edited by Pierre Louis; 06-09-2014 at 11:49 PM..
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      06-12-2014, 10:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
When you factor in the price of diesel being higher than gasoline, the cost of DEF, diesel additives, and excessive diesel maintenance, I can only see the gap widening.
Diesel is consistently cheaper than or equal to regular (87 Octane) gas where I fill up so it really depends on your location. I chose the diesel not for its mileage specifically (though its of course nice to have) but the character I feel it ads to the driving experience. I'm one of the weird ones who actually like the diesel sound and of course the available low end torque for around the town driving. Its also nice to have something a little different (even if only in a way that <1% of people would even know about) in a vehicle which just about everyone seems to have in SoCal. I love my M-Sport diesel with a red interior as it suits me perfectly!
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      06-12-2014, 01:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
When you factor in the price of diesel being higher than gasoline, the cost of DEF, diesel additives, and excessive diesel maintenance, I can only see the gap widening.
Please describe the Math, including a comparison to an equivalent gasser (aka 328i in this case) fuel cost and resale value. Diesels have a higher resale value historically (may not apply here) while gassers have spark plugs to replace and fuel injector/CBU problems too. The DEF fluid is cheap.

I think you would find that diesel would need to be at least 30% more than premium gasoline for the cost to break even. I do agree that the cost of replacing a DPF may be what deters one's enthusiasm here.

PL
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      06-17-2014, 08:27 PM   #14
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The premiss is flawed.
It's based on purchasing either the gas or diesel version of the same vehicle. I just switched from a gas F150 getting 16 mpg to a 328D getting better than 40 mpg.
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      11-16-2014, 12:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiep View Post
Because a diesel engine turbo spins far faster than a petrol engine turbo - which is another matter altogether, but basically, diesel engines get more efficient with turbochargers sucking in huge volumes of air (which also cools the air, making the engine even more efficient), so diesel engine turbochargeers run at far higher RPM than petrol engine turbochargers. Faster = more heat in the turbo bearings to get rid of.
Turn off a diesel engine that is turbocharged when the turbo is at full heat, and the oil will carbonise in the oil feed pipes and bearings. Think of an artery being clogged up - just a little bit - each time. Do that enough times, and the turbo will eventually have the equivalent of a heart attack.
This is false. Diesels turbos operate at lower temps vs gas.

http://www.wcengineering.com/articles/dieselturbo.html
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      12-07-2014, 01:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arktctr View Post
Diesel is consistently cheaper than or equal to regular (87 Octane) gas where I fill up so it really depends on your location. I chose the diesel not for its mileage specifically (though its of course nice to have) but the character I feel it ads to the driving experience. I'm one of the weird ones who actually like the diesel sound and of course the available low end torque for around the town driving. Its also nice to have something a little different (even if only in a way that <1% of people would even know about) in a vehicle which just about everyone seems to have in SoCal. I love my M-Sport diesel with a red interior as it suits me perfectly!
Another fellow diesel driver in SoCal!!! Everyone seems to have 328i's. A lot of the times (which is insanely rare) when I see another 328d on the road I will roll down my window and say "nice diesel, I got one too". Kind of stupid, but it's just so awesome to see a rare car on the road. Hopefully I'll see yours and then wave at you!
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      12-07-2014, 01:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arktctr View Post
Diesel is consistently cheaper than or equal to regular (87 Octane) gas where I fill up so it really depends on your location. I chose the diesel not for its mileage specifically (though its of course nice to have) but the character I feel it ads to the driving experience. I'm one of the weird ones who actually like the diesel sound and of course the available low end torque for around the town driving. Its also nice to have something a little different (even if only in a way that <1% of people would even know about) in a vehicle which just about everyone seems to have in SoCal. I love my M-Sport diesel with a red interior as it suits me perfectly!
Another fellow diesel driver in SoCal!!! Everyone seems to have 328i's. A lot of the times (which is insanely rare) when I see another 328d on the road I will roll down my window and say "nice diesel, I got one too". Kind of stupid, but it's just so awesome to see a rare car on the road. Hopefully I'll see yours and then wave at you!
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      12-22-2014, 09:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytotes View Post
Another fellow diesel driver in SoCal!!! Everyone seems to have 328i's. A lot of the times (which is insanely rare) when I see another 328d on the road I will roll down my window and say "nice diesel, I got one too". Kind of stupid, but it's just so awesome to see a rare car on the road. Hopefully I'll see yours and then wave at you!
I agree...weirdly I have seen a near clone of my car in my neighborhood but otherwise never really see the 328d on the road. This car has alot of character even without the huge engine.
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      12-22-2014, 09:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arktctr View Post
Diesel is consistently cheaper than or equal to regular (87 Octane) gas where I fill up so it really depends on your location. I chose the diesel not for its mileage specifically (though its of course nice to have) but the character I feel it ads to the driving experience. I'm one of the weird ones who actually like the diesel sound and of course the available low end torque for around the town driving. Its also nice to have something a little different (even if only in a way that <1% of people would even know about) in a vehicle which just about everyone seems to have in SoCal. I love my M-Sport diesel with a red interior as it suits me perfectly!
As a follow up, I just filled up this morning at $2.57/gallon which cost me less than $40 to fill all the way up...I didn't choose this car solely for the mileage but I do enjoy the benefit of 500 miles / tank (without any sort of road trip or extended highway drive) and now <$40 fillups...not to bad...
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