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      02-13-2014, 06:07 PM   #1
gee-m-w
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F80 M3 vs. B8 S4

It's not really the money, it's the value. BMW is charging a premium and I don't see uniformly premium product. A few more years of inflation may float the competition's price up to BMW level.

A 2014 S4 is $48k with a lot of M3 features like the same seats from Recaro, enhanced servotronic steering from Bosch, the same active rear differential, etc. The M3 will be a better car for sure, but maybe not $20,000 higher in cost better.

What I really don't want to happen is to get the car and like it less or have it in the shop for BMW free maintenance all the time.
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      02-13-2014, 06:15 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
It's not really the money, it's the value. BMW is charging a premium and I don't see uniformly premium product. A few more years of inflation may float the competition's price up to BMW level.

A 2014 S4 is $48k with a lot of M3 features like the same seats from Recaro, enhanced servotronic steering from Bosch, the same active rear differential, etc. The M3 will be a better car for sure, but maybe not $20,000 higher in cost better.

What I really don't want to happen is to get the car and like it less or have it in the shop for BMW free maintenance all the time.
I think your pragmatic view point is spot on. Something to consider though. 'free maintenance' is not free - but then again that 'free maintenance' may not fully close a 20k price gap between bmw vs audi/benz.
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      02-14-2014, 10:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post

A 2014 S4 is $48k with a lot of M3 features like the same seats from Recaro, enhanced servotronic steering from Bosch, the same active rear differential, etc. The M3 will be a better car for sure, but maybe not $20,000 higher in cost better..
Try your math again.

First of all, the base for an M3 is $62k not $68k, as your $20k difference would reveal.

Second, at that price, Nav is not standard, nor is sport diff, nor is leather. Add those in and you're at $53,500. Now you're equivalent to a base M3, at $62k. So $8,500 different, not $20k.

Not saying that there should be $8,500 in spread, but it's certainly not $20k.
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      02-14-2014, 10:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Try your math again.

First of all, the base for an M3 is $62k not $68k, as your $20k difference would reveal.

Second, at that price, Nav is not standard, nor is sport diff, nor is leather. Add those in and you're at $53,500. Now you're equivalent to a base M3, at $62k. So $8,500 different, not $20k.

Not saying that there should be $8,500 in spread, but it's certainly not $20k.
Mine was $48k optioned - honestly everything came standard and I got $1000 off for being a BMW customer. Invoice on this M3 with the equipment I need is $68k. It'll be $81k out the door.
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      02-14-2014, 10:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Try your math again.

First of all, the base for an M3 is $62k not $68k, as your $20k difference would reveal.

Second, at that price, Nav is not standard, nor is sport diff, nor is leather. Add those in and you're at $53,500. Now you're equivalent to a base M3, at $62k. So $8,500 different, not $20k.

Not saying that there should be $8,500 in spread, but it's certainly not $20k.
Mine was $48k optioned - honestly everything came standard and I got $1000 off for being a BMW customer. Invoice on this M3 with the equipment I need is $68k. It'll be $81k out the door.
What you paid or how you want it is irrelevant. To get apples to apples, a 2014 S4 to a 2015 M3 is $8,500 different. Not $20k.

$81k M3 is fully loaded.
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      02-14-2014, 10:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
What you paid or how you want it is irrelevant. To get apples to apples, a 2014 S4 to a 2015 M3 is $8,500 different. Not $20k.

$81k M3 is fully loaded.
this. 100 percent spot on
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      02-14-2014, 10:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
It's not really the money, it's the value. BMW is charging a premium and I don't see uniformly premium product. A few more years of inflation may float the competition's price up to BMW level.

A 2014 S4 is $48k with a lot of M3 features like the same seats from Recaro, enhanced servotronic steering from Bosch, the same active rear differential, etc. The M3 will be a better car for sure, but maybe not $20,000 higher in cost better.

What I really don't want to happen is to get the car and like it less or have it in the shop for BMW free maintenance all the time.
I drive an Audi A4 daily. I also test drove RS5 and that car didn't even come close to dynamic ability of E9X M3.

Why are we even talking about S4??? It's not even close to anything ///M...and horribly overpriced at $50K.

I don't get it.
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      02-14-2014, 10:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
What you paid or how you want it is irrelevant. To get apples to apples, a 2014 S4 to a 2015 M3 is $8,500 different. Not $20k.

$81k M3 is fully loaded.

...and on top of that, there's a huge performance differential between an F8X and an S4. It's worth the $8,500 premium any day of the week!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill72 View Post
I drive an Audi A4 daily. I also test drove RS5 and that car didn't even come close to dynamic ability of E9X M3.

Why are we even talking about S4??? It's not even close to anything ///M...and horribly overpriced at $50K.

I don't get it.

You beat me to it.
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      02-14-2014, 11:08 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post

You beat me to it.
Great men think alike.
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      02-14-2014, 04:46 PM   #10
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The premium is still closer to $13,000, plus brakes and partial LED lighting. I suppose if you knock out the maps part of the nav screen then it drops to like $10k.

That's $10,000 to lose 390 pounds apples to apples, from my perspective. The quattro helps me power through some of that loss agility, by going full throttle at the apex.
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      02-14-2014, 04:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
The premium is still closer to $13,000, plus brakes and partial LED lighting. I suppose if you knock out the maps part of the nav screen then it drops to like $10k.

That's $10,000 to lose 390 pounds apples to apples, from my perspective. The quattro helps me power through some of that loss agility, by going full throttle at the apex.
Other than the weight, what about the S4's 100hp deficit, skinny rubber, narrow track, understeer, weedy brakes, inferior trans etc etc? The money difference is obvious.
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      02-14-2014, 05:04 PM   #12
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Seriously?? S4 Audi Vs F8x M3? Seriously?
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      02-14-2014, 05:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill72 View Post
I drive an Audi A4 daily. I also test drove RS5 and that car didn't even come close to dynamic ability of E9X M3.

Why are we even talking about S4??? It's not even close to anything ///M...and horribly overpriced at $50K.

I don't get it.
Exactly, s4 is on par with a 335 not M3.
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      02-14-2014, 05:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
The premium is still closer to $13,000, plus brakes and partial LED lighting. I suppose if you knock out the maps part of the nav screen then it drops to like $10k.

That's $10,000 to lose 390 pounds apples to apples, from my perspective. The quattro helps me power through some of that loss agility, by going full throttle at the apex.
Well then enjoy the s4?
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      02-14-2014, 05:15 PM   #15
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S4's are AWD family cars that have turbos to support their overweight fat-assed bodies. This comparo is even worse that the guy who put the NSX vs M4 thread.

I agree with Sedan and Chill, the RS5 would be your only reference that you could possibly use in this argument, and if you drove them both in the same day, it wouldn't even be a discussion

The "full throttle at the apex" comment is sad. You have to go full throttle at the apex to get back to the speed limit
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      02-14-2014, 05:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by //M sa View Post
Well then enjoy the s4?
YEP!! Again, congrats on your amazing S4, but WOW am I sick of hearing about how it comes anywhere close to the M3. The RS5 doesn't touch the M3 and that car is in the $80,000 range, so how can you sit here, straight faced, and say it is basically the same even though there is a $13,000 price premium. If you are so set on Audi, then why not get an RS5 and still not be as good as an M3? We keep returning to the same stupid argument.
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      02-14-2014, 05:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill72 View Post
I drive an Audi A4 daily. I also test drove RS5 and that car didn't even come close to dynamic ability of E9X M3.

Why are we even talking about S4??? It's not even close to anything ///M...and horribly overpriced at $50K.

I don't get it.
This is exactly how I felt when I test drove the RS5. I really wanted it to be a beast but it just didn't feel like that much fun.
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      02-14-2014, 07:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl L View Post
Other than the weight, what about the S4's 100hp deficit, skinny rubber, narrow track, understeer, weedy brakes, inferior trans etc etc? The money difference is obvious.
For $1100 a mild tune makes 390 ft/lb and 434 HP. The dealer will even install it for you. It's 255 tires all around. Every factory car understeers until you dial in a ton of camber. The BMW requires camber plates; the Audi requires adjustable control arms. I don't see how a 6 speed manual from Getrag is inferior or superior when installed in a BMW.
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      02-14-2014, 07:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by //M sa View Post
Exactly, s4 is on par with a 335 not M3.
The 335i is not even in the same league because it's too much like a 320i - no M treatment. 1 wheel drive vs. all wheel drive with a limited slip active rear differential. Also, the S4 comes with a lot more cooling (auxiliary heat exchangers) and makes a lot less heat than a 335i. No limp modes.
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      02-14-2014, 07:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbockrd View Post
S4's are AWD family cars that have turbos to support their overweight fat-assed bodies. This comparo is even worse that the guy who put the NSX vs M4 thread.

I agree with Sedan and Chill, the RS5 would be your only reference that you could possibly use in this argument, and if you drove them both in the same day, it wouldn't even be a discussion

The "full throttle at the apex" comment is sad. You have to go full throttle at the apex to get back to the speed limit
If you go full throttle at the apex in an M3 it goes backwards into a wall. You have to wait until track out when your steering wheel is straight.

It's also a supercharger, not a turbo. But I can tell you've done your research. I've driven both my S4 and another RS5 on the same track on the same day. Different sensation going from forced induction to a big V8. Probably not too different from driving an e90 M3 and an F30 M3 on the same day.
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      02-14-2014, 07:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishhead24 View Post
YEP!! Again, congrats on your amazing S4, but WOW am I sick of hearing about how it comes anywhere close to the M3. The RS5 doesn't touch the M3 and that car is in the $80,000 range, so how can you sit here, straight faced, and say it is basically the same even though there is a $13,000 price premium. If you are so set on Audi, then why not get an RS5 and still not be as good as an M3? We keep returning to the same stupid argument.
Because I go to BMW Oktoberfest and other club events and sometimes my car is faster than an M3? They're honestly not that different. We're splitting hairs. It's like saying an M3 CSL is not in the same league as an M3. Or a GT3 is not even remotely comparable to a GT3 RS. Who cares if they add one extra letter? These are all levels of refinement on the same platform with the same off the shelf parts from the same 5 suppliers in Germany.

They're both 2999cc engines with forced induction that easily make over 400 HP, routed through either 2 wheels or 4 wheels.
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      02-14-2014, 08:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
Because I go to BMW Oktoberfest and other club events and sometimes my car is faster than an M3? They're honestly not that different. We're splitting hairs. It's like saying an M3 CSL is not in the same league as an M3. Or a GT3 is not even remotely comparable to a GT3 RS. Who cares if they add one extra letter? These are all levels of refinement on the same platform with the same off the shelf parts from the same 5 suppliers in Germany.

They're both 2999cc engines with forced induction that easily make over 400 HP, routed through either 2 wheels or 4 wheels.
And I go to the track and I'm faster than Ferrari 360/430, Porsche GT3s/Carreras...Do I think M3 is better or equal than those cars? Absolutely not.

And what S4 has 400HP? APR tune shows 362 horsepower and 345-ft at $1200.

I would compare your S4 to PP equipped 328 X-drive.
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