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      03-04-2014, 01:39 PM   #1
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Well, my new APEX ARC-8 18x9" ET42 wheels in anthracite came in today

I have an autocross 3/15 (11 days) and more importantly a 3 day HDPE at Circuit of the Americas in Austin starting 3/20 (16 days)

I'm currently in possession of 4x 225/45 Pirelli P7 Cinturato All-season run-flat low rolling resistance UTQG 500 pieces of garbage - and that's it

I was hoping to put 265/35R18 rubber on all 4 corners with the new wheels - a 5mm spacer on the front to clear the strut - and with the added camber from the Ground Control camber plates I ordered on 2/11 (3 weeks ago), I'd be golden

Except

the camber plates are currently on infinite hiatus with no firm ETA

Which means I have no new clearance to work with up front

I need to get tires basically now - as I see it, my options are
1) get 4x245/40R18's - which is what I ran last year on the 8" stock rims and I know will fit and due to the increased wheel width, give me a little more grip than last year
2) get 2x245's/40's and 2x265/35's - staggered with square rims = silly IMO, but it would give me a set of 265's to test fit with when the plates come in. The car would have a different grip balance than I'm used to, and some of the walls at COTA are $1000/ft to repair...

I'll be damned if I'm going to COTA with skinny run-flat all-season prius tires - so that's not an option

I'm pretty sure I'm thinking option 1 - just more than pissed that I'll be missing out on 20mm of tread for a whole season

Opinions? Any other ideas?

Last edited by utenigma; 03-04-2014 at 02:11 PM..
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      03-04-2014, 01:56 PM   #2
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TC Kline camber plates. TC has an excellent reputation and, in speaking with in him in the past, he has done extensive track and real world driving testing on them for at least a year. I am debating between these, ground control (when they get them right), and vorshlag (when the come out).
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      03-04-2014, 01:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMK007 View Post
TC Kline camber plates. TC has an excellent reputation and, in speaking with in him in the past, he has done extensive track and real world driving testing on them for at least a year. I am debating between these, ground control (when they get them right), and vorshlag (when the come out).
http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs...Details989.cfm

From their site
Quote:
These camber plates are designed to work with TC Kline Racing coil-over suspension only! They are not compatible with the stock suspension
I've got the EDC suspension right now and I'm not ready to go to coil-overs just yet
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      03-04-2014, 02:51 PM   #4
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I have got Toyo-R888 on my Apex
245/40/18 all around it is my DD tho
they are noisy yeah they are too noisy if you are doing 30mph but above it or with windows open you'll forget it with time.
but as long as you are in track you'll love it.
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      03-04-2014, 04:42 PM   #5
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I say go 245/40 all around with super sticky Hankook RS3s or something else. You'll be better off than going staggered. Personally I think with 245 all around, your times won't be much slower than 265 all around. The cars suspension is it's weak point and tire grip can only help to a certain point.
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      03-04-2014, 05:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs...Details989.cfm

From their site


I've got the EDC suspension right now and I'm not ready to go to coil-overs just yet
Crap. Hopefully Jay gets the camber plates squared away quickly. Until then, I'd definitely chose the 245/40/18 option. I'm getting BFG R1's 245/40/18. Those things will stick like glue but they may be too much for your suspension. If you want less grippy R comps, Nitto NT-01s are nice, durable and relatively cheap.

By the way, I was just in Texas two weeks ago and got a chance to visit my alma mater, UT, for the first time in 19 years. Austin is a great town and COTA looks unbelievable. I'm jealous...
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      03-04-2014, 08:50 PM   #7
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Not sure how well these might fit..anyhow a good deal for brand new set of NT01's from discount tires eBay site. $816 after discount codes AND free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-275-35...item4861ad669b" rel="ugc" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.ebay.com/...4861ad669b</a>

245's would be ok for a 328 if you have a 335 I wouldn't do it unless its AutoX (quicker to put heat in the tire) and not HPDE.

I had no problem with 18x9.5 rims with 45 offset (using 12mm spacers up front) with no camber plates. I took the GC plates off and sending them back.

I'm running another brand of plates (prototype) but as it looks your setup might not need the clearance.
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      03-05-2014, 01:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill View Post
Not sure how well these might fit..anyhow a good deal for brand new set of NT01's from discount tires eBay site. $816 after discount codes AND free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-275-35...item4861ad669b" rel="ugc" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.ebay.com/...4861ad669b</a>

245's would be ok for a 328 if you have a 335 I wouldn't do it unless its AutoX (quicker to put heat in the tire) and not HPDE.

I had no problem with 18x9.5 rims with 45 offset (using 12mm spacers up front) with no camber plates. I took the GC plates off and sending them back.

I'm running another brand of plates (prototype) but as it looks your setup might not need the clearance.
So bill, you had 275/35's on a 9.5 45et with a 12mm spacer and you weren't rubbing on the fender leaned over? Which springs do you have?

These are pics from last year on 8x18 et 34 with 245/40 rubber - should have had a section width of about 9.5 in



a 265 on a 9" would have a section width of 10.5" - with the new wheel's 42 offset and a 5mm spacer to clear the shock, that would put the 265's about 10mm closer to the fender than the tires in these pictures - seems like maybe it would work

If you can confirm you were running 275's on 9.5 et 45 with 12mm spacers on the front with a car that has a similar ride height as mine (I'm on H&R Sports) and you didn't have rubbing - I'm just gonna get the 265s

If they don't fit, I can just get another set and put these in the garage and store them till next year

Appreciate the response in advance bill
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      03-05-2014, 02:18 PM   #9
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If you're going to give it a go with 265/275mm tires, it's worth doing a bit of research to see whether the particular tire runs on the wide or narrow side... for example, the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3s that I got in the Fall have a wide "curb-rash" rib on both the inside and outside of the sidewall, so in terms of strut clearance, they run exceptionally wide. The guys at Apex can probably tell you what tires they know of that run either very wide, or narrow.

That said, I don't think that the extra 20-30mm of tire tread width makes much of a difference on a given set of 9" wheels... it's not like adding extra wheel and tire width. (e.g. My OEM 255mm Conti tires on OEM 8.5" rear wheels are noticeably narrower than my 245mm Michelins on my 9" Apex wheels.)

Either way, after an Auto-X and 3 days of HPDE, you will likely burn a good bit of whatever rubber you decide on, so you won't be stuck with them for very long ; )
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      03-05-2014, 04:36 PM   #10
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F it - I did it - ordered 4 265's

guess we'll see
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      03-06-2014, 07:30 AM   #11
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I've got 265/35/18 R888 's (front and rear) which I believe run a bit wide with Dinan springs (a little less of a drop than H&R but not substantial as they have settled a bit)

265/25.4=10.43 inches.

Mounted on a 9.5 " rim they are 10.75 inches wide. They run more like a 275 tire as the shoulder seems very square.

Here's some pictures I took for you last night. The one picture mounted is the strut clearance with 12mm spacer (you can see my finger on the other side).

Hope this potentially helps.
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      03-06-2014, 07:42 AM   #12
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On another note 265/35 will be about a half inch less in overall diameter then the 245/40 depending on the section width of the rim it's being mounted on) shown in the pictures above allowing for a bit more clearance.

Ill measure my ride height tonight but I believe they are about 1/4 inch higher than my H&R springs(vs Dinan) I had on a few months ago.

You may have a hard time finding a 5mm hub centric spacer, I'm not sure I've seen anything smaller than 10mm as it's hard to machine a design smaller but also incorporate the centering lip (hopefully you have found one).
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      03-06-2014, 10:39 AM   #13
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Bill's right - you need about 10mm minimum in order to clear the hub's centering lip.
So spacers under 10mm will not be hub-centric, but rather rely on what's left of the hub's centering lip... which is why you usually don't see spacers in the 6-9mm range (not wide enough for a hub-centric lip, but too wide to still make effective use of the hub's centering lip).

I currently have 5mm spacers in front and 3mm spacers in back with my Apex wheels... but I'm considering bumping up to 10 or 12mm.
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      03-06-2014, 10:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill View Post
You may have a hard time finding a 5mm hub centric spacer, I'm not sure I've seen anything smaller than 10mm as it's hard to machine a design smaller but also incorporate the centering lip (hopefully you have found one).
Agreed, you need about 10mm minimum in order to clear the hub's centering lip.
So spacers under 10mm aren't hub-centric, but rather rely on what's left of the hub's centering lip... (which is why you usually don't see spacers in the 6-9mm range - not wide enough for a hub-centric lip, but too wide to still make effective use of the small remaining amount of the hub's centering lip that clears the spacer).

I currently have 5mm spacers in front and 3mm spacers in back with my Apex wheels... but I'm considering bumping up to 10 or 12mm. In general, do you think 10mm hub-centric spacers are a better way to go than 5mm spacers that still make use of the hub lip? Or does it not really matter...?
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      03-12-2014, 10:39 AM   #15
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Well - Wheels came in (gogo Apex - paid on the group buy 2/20 - first day, they hit 101 people on Wed 2/26 and my wheels shipped that day, arrived following Tues) Tires got here yesterday, got them mounted and balanced yesterday. Waiting on my stud kit and spacers (5mm from Apex) to show up today

When I got the mounted tires last night I checked how much the R-S3's hung over the inner lip of the wheel (6.57mm). I measured 3mm clearance from the inner lip to the strut when I dry-fit the wheels, and the bulge of the tire is about an inch above that where there's a little more clearance. I figured why not just throw on one in the front and see how close to the strut it is.

Answer is...



The wheel spins freely. I can slip a piece of paper between the tire and the strut, but can't slip a penny in there

Torqued the one wheel down, drove it around, no noise from the well, no rubbing lock to lock.

So - opinion time

Should I worry about a clearance that is higher than 0, but lower than 1mm

Thinking hub flex under heavy load causing the clearance to become negative

Go ahead and put the spacers on - or leave it like this
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      03-12-2014, 12:41 PM   #16
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Ideally, you should have at least a few mm of clearance from the strut. Even just a 3mm spacer should be fine...possibly preferable to the 5mm, since you're retaining more of the hub's centering lip.
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      03-16-2014, 08:39 AM   #17
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So I went ahead and threw on the 5mm spacers I had (along with a wheel stud kit)

Had an autoX yesterday - the new wheels/tires made a huge difference. All my worry about rubbing on the outside fender just doesn't matter apparently - the outer fender just doesn't come into play

Thanks everyone for the input - especially Bill for blazing the trail for me!

Video of the event

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      04-22-2015, 08:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill View Post
I've got 265/35/18 R888 's (front and rear) which I believe run a bit wide with Dinan springs (a little less of a drop than H&R but not substantial as they have settled a bit)

265/25.4=10.43 inches.

Mounted on a 9.5 " rim they are 10.75 inches wide. They run more like a 275 tire as the shoulder seems very square.

Here's some pictures I took for you last night. The one picture mounted is the strut clearance with 12mm spacer (you can see my finger on the other side).

Hope this potentially helps.
What size wheels are you using?
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      04-23-2015, 12:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
Should I worry about a clearance that is higher than 0, but lower than 1mm
You'd be surprised how much tires deflect under load at speed.
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      04-23-2015, 11:34 PM   #20
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If I went with Apex EC7 18x8.5 ET35 (front and rear), would I have rubbing issues using 255/40/18 on all four corners with anywhere from stock RWD M Sport to M Performance Suspension ride height? Or would I need to go with a 245/40/18?
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