[thaking]

Is there in UK any recall for N47 motors for timing chain problems ?

What if you have problems for example car is 5 years old and at non-official service you discover strange sound from motor (chain) -> is this still as warranty because of manufacturing fault (even if is not officially confirmed but everyone know it is..) ?


I can found on Internet comments like:

My 2010 F10 5 series needs a new engine, injectors and turbo because of this timing chain failure. The cost is 14000 euro and bmw offered only 50% of parts cost. Very disappointed in their service. They told me they can take back the 50% offer at anytime when I mentioned that I want to make others aware of the problem. Is this blackmail? This is so frustrating. I will never buy another crappy quality BMW. 

[old grey steve]

They are well aware of it put it that way due to the fact that they've quoted that the engines got to come out to do it it's not quite straightforward though I read on BMW's AIR OSS application that the timing chain issues these scars suffer can be repaired with special todos with the engine in situ(the updated development on this modified repair released from BMW appears to be fairly recent)

If you managed to watch BBC's Watchdog program last year there was a decent piece on this very subject, as far as we as a garage are concerned we agree with the engineer on Watchdog, if they put the chain in such a inaccessible place then common sense says they never envisaged a problem, the mere fact that you've got plastic, heat no circulation means there's a risk of fatigue. And today this seems to be the case. It was a packaging exercise to move weight back in the chassis amongst other things and although the engines very efficient and powerful the weak link is its design. To have a chain at the back was a bad move, which I suspect they have now realised

But I haven't heard of a recall. There again the issues re guides etc is fairly common. Take Mini's as an example.

Here's the new set of guides we put into a Cooper as not long ago.




and here's the reason why



Not only Mini we've seen a lot of BMW 316's 318 E46's with the same issue and we've had a couple of E90 320's in with the same issue too. If you're asking if it's common to have issues re guides ask yourself this question. "How come a BMW dealer will either have the parts in stock on the shelf or can get them the same day?" It seems perpetration for this has been taking place for some time!

[thaking]

Yes I agree with you, but why customer need to pay for repairing if this is manufacturing fault (not official but everyone know it is) -> we paid a much more money for new car as their competition so we expect something more and what we get ?

We will see in few years when all these customers with N47 motors (2007-2012), BMW1,3,5,X3,X1 series will need a new car -> I think they will not choose BMW as their bad attitude.

[old grey steve]

The thing is BMW stated in their public response to all this, that the cases they'll look at(they will do a case by case response)have to be supported by a full BMW main dealer history.

Thing is the timing chain is a non serviceable item, (hence it was packaged in this way as they envisaged it wouldn't need looking at)it's not checked by BMW when the cars in for a service, BMW as a rule say on an oil service on the whole IMO don't carry out a basic requirement with the cars good health and customers interest at heart as an oil service these days consists of sucking oil out(with out removing bottom covers & sump plug) and simply filling the correct quantity of oil back in the sump, wiping the top cover, refitting the cap running the car up, re setting the light and checking the automated dipstick to verify the levels right. You haven't got time to do anything else otherwise the technician would be considered unproductive and as they are measured these days and paid for that matter on productivity then the attention to detail that was around say 20 years ago had been lost to produce revenue at the cost of vehicle longevity.

The same thought process lies with CBS as how the hell can oil live in a sump for up to 20k and beyond on a diesel. And dint get me started on sealed for life transmission fluids.

They get so I'm told well under an hour to carry out the oil service (from the moment the keys are handed over to the moment the cars rolled out) next time your cars serviced and oils added try and watch. It's all about speed and getting cars through the workshop quickly to gain revenue. I understand that most BMW dealers use this method of oil servicing, different dealerships may have slightly different practices but it seems to be the case of quick in quick out.

So how the hell can BMW say they'll look at cars with full BMW history when this sort of practice takes place in the network. If a sharp minded engineer was to challenge BMW UK into asking why they look at only BMW serviced cars as per their press release and was to then observe the way the actual service was conducted I'm sure they'd rip a huge hole in their practices and would really put them on the spot as to us Indy dealers, where time isn't a factor when carrying out a service we honestly carry out on the whole a more sympathetic job and many if our customers are now realising this.

[thaking]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

So how the hell can BMW say they'll look at cars with full BMW history when this sort of practice takes place in the network. If a sharp minded engineer was to challenge BMW UK into asking why they look at only BMW serviced cars as per their press release and was to then observe the way the actual service was conducted I'm sure they'd rip a huge hole in their practices and would really put them on the spot as to us Indy dealers, where time isn't a factor when carrying out a service we honestly carry out on the whole a more sympathetic job and many if our customers are now realising this.

Yes completely agree with you. Even their service intervals with 19,000 mile (30k km) for oil service ("LL-longlife oil my "ass") make no sense on "good services" of the car. Even if you buy a new car and have their 2 year warranty and free services the first free oil change will not be paid from their side before 19.000 mile or 30k km -> which is ridiculous.

If there is a manufacturing or bad engineering fault/mistake than it doesn't matter if a car is with a full BMW history or not. I know a lot of people who servicing their BMW at 7-8k miles (10-13k km) and of course using original BMW pars at non-official BMW services (mostly the people who are working at these services were working few years ago at official BMW services/dealers) so they know what they are doing and take care on these cars with all original BMW testers, equipment....
I think if you have papers from all your previous services (even if they are not from official BMW services) and have such a problem they need to change/repair for free, or at least 80-90% of costs...

[old grey steve]

Thing with long life servicing has it been designed for the benefit if the customer or the long term benefit of the BMW Network (both parts and service) in terms of getting repairs(possibly costly) carried out.

You look at manufacturers like say Mercedes or even Mazda, service intervals rigorously maintained to a year or say 12500 miles, they are fairly strict on these mileages, Mercedes for instance on the on line service booklet that they use when the later cars are serviced demand an input for the mileage, days duration over the days the service clock on the dash indicates so there's warning for the end users going on and it seems Mercedes are looking to see their cars as regularly as possible for their required service, Mazda also do a very similar thing re on line service records.

BMW & VAG Network cars are taking a different approach offering long life service intervals on their cars.... oddly the BMW, VAG products sell very well to certain circles where off road time and reduced maintenance costs in the first three to four years of ownership work well i.e. in the fleet market due to longer service intervals... so are the manufacturers sacrificing something for stronger kerb appeal re sales and on road presence ?

The only slight deviation between VAG & BMW on this thorny subject is they again BMW sealed fir life re transmission on VAG there's a bit of common sense with service kits freely available and recommend service intervals of around 40k.

Well and all the above is my own opinion I think so. If you've bit a service plan from BMW they'll only service it if the lights on if you do short duration journeys the oil could be in the sump for over 2 years, if as a service plan customer you wanted the service done every year you'd be turned away as on the key reader when it's read they'll come to the conclusion that the car doesn't require it.

From memory and I might be wrong if the car requires oil top up and the light indicates this you return to the dealership for a litre of oil as instructed. But apart from thus is all sensors and control units that are in control. And trust me these can/do go wrong