[Josh1a1h]

Hi everyone...

It seems that there is no one right answer... and i am getting a whole load of contradicting info...

I have an E92 335i, Lowered on coils... and due to my control arm bushings requiring replacement.... I have opted for the full m3 control arms up front whilst leaving everything stock in the rear.


Now what settings to i tell my alignment shop to set up the car with?

I heard M3 specs can make the car tram line terribly...

I heard 335i Msport Specs can work but then do you lose the benefit of using m3 arms?...

I will also be adding a little more camber in the front just to help with a little bit of rubbing. Do you think this is a bad idea? Or should i be ok? I know it is toe that kills your tyres more than camber...

Cheers

Josh

[blacktar]

Why would you align to 335 spec when you have M3 control arms that add camber articulation? Nobody will give you a proper answer because only you can answer your camber needs based on your driving habits and conditions.

Now, I just recently have done this modification with the M3 control arms, and I spent MONTHS researching this before I purchased and modified.

I have my camber set to -2.0 all around. M3 allows about .7 degree addition of play.

I have NO problems with tirewear and I do rub, but that's because of spacers and my wheel offset. Which, I am OK with. M3 control arms have little to nothing to do with rubbing, in fact, probably helping reduce it with the negative camber. That's my theory though, I'm no mechanic.

So, the point I'm making is you can adjust from 1.X to 2.X depending on what you want. However, I can confidently suggest UP TO -2.0 being safe and OK. I can't speak higher than that, since I do not ride any other setups.

[TurboBimmer]

For street use, -1.5 to -2 degrees of camber will be fine. Cornering will notably be improved compared to stock.

Greets,

Christian

[JaysBlueE92]

Originally Posted by blacktar

... and I do rub, but that's because of spacers and my wheel offset..

specs??

[blacktar]

Originally Posted by JaysBlueE92

specs??

I'm not a 'scene' or 'stance' guy, so don't remember the offset off hand, I need to look at my paperwork. But the rear is the one that rubs, BBS CHR 19x9.5 width wheel with 10MM HR spacers. Lowered on HR sports with Koni Adjustables.

Edit:
35 jumps out on me. Don't quote me though.

[David1]

You use 335 specs with more camber. You can set toe to what you want. Pull the pins to max out your camber. Mine rear is also set to what I want.

[CALWATERBOY]

Originally Posted by Josh1a1h

Hi everyone...

It seems that there is no one right answer... and i am getting a whole load of contradicting info...

I have an E92 335i, Lowered on coils... and due to my control arm bushings requiring replacement.... I have opted for the full m3 control arms up front whilst leaving everything stock in the rear.


Now what settings to i tell my alignment shop to set up the car with?

I heard M3 specs can make the car tram line terribly...

I heard 335i Msport Specs can work but then do you lose the benefit of using m3 arms?...

I will also be adding a little more camber in the front just to help with a little bit of rubbing. Do you think this is a bad idea? Or should i be ok? I know it is toe that kills your tyres more than camber...

Cheers

Josh

Easy enough - with no camber plates in front, go for max camber - that's -1.5°, maybe more.

Rear's -1.5° camber.

Stock toe's fine.

0° thrust angle.


What's your ride height?

[JStang]

Originally Posted by blacktar

I'm not a 'scene' or 'stance' guy, so don't remember the offset off hand, I need to look at my paperwork. But the rear is the one that rubs, BBS CHR 19x9.5 width wheel with 10MM HR spacers. Lowered on HR sports with Koni Adjustables.

Edit:
35 jumps out on me. Don't quote me though.

CH-R's are +35 in the rear. You are right, with a 10MM spacer and no fender roll you will rub.

[blacktar]

Originally Posted by JStang

CH-R's are +35 in the rear. You are right, with a 10MM spacer and no fender roll you will rub.

It's not HORRIBLE, but very noticeable. I keep debating in my head if i should get a subtle roll or just change to 5MM spacers.

1st world problems.

[Josh1a1h]

Originally Posted by blacktar

Why would you align to 335 spec when you have M3 control arms that add camber articulation? Nobody will give you a proper answer because only you can answer your camber needs based on your driving habits and conditions.

Now, I just recently have done this modification with the M3 control arms, and I spent MONTHS researching this before I purchased and modified.

I have my camber set to -2.0 all around. M3 allows about .7 degree addition of play.

Originally Posted by David1

You use 335 specs with more camber. You can set toe to what you want. Pull the pins to max out your camber. Mine rear is also set to what I want.

SEEE!!!! AGAIN HERE WE GOOO

One is adamant that M3 specs are right...

And Another guy is saying 335 Msport Specs with the desired camber...

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

Easy enough - with no camber plates in front, go for max camber - that's -1.5°, maybe more.

Rear's -1.5° camber.

Stock toe's fine.

0° thrust angle.


What's your ride height?

I have adjustable camber plates so i dont have to mess with the pins.



THIS IS WHAT ANOTHER GUY HAS SAID...

M3 front specs and if you havent done anything to the rear... most likely 335 specs...

The alignment specs we use are static specs, chosen to bring the car as close as possible to ideal geometry under load. For example, regarding camber, the ideal is to keep the tyre surface perfectly flat on the road (i.e. zero camber). However, as you go around a corner, the dynamic camber shift from the body rolling causes the outside tyre to roll over onto its outer edge. To combat this, we run negative static camber in order to keep the outside tyre flat on the road under load.

The M3 runs alignment specs closer to zero than the standard 335i for two reasons:
- it has stiffer bushes (or, in some cases, rose joints in place of bushes) and springs that cause less dynamic shift in the static alignment specs
- it's sold as a more sporting car so they don't need to compromise the handling quite so much to give a comfortable, well-behaved car on uneven road surfaces.

On the front, if you fit the M3 tension strut and wishbone, you've effectively replaced all of the bushes that control geometry with the M3 equivalents, so it makes perfect sense to run M3 front specs. On the rear, to get to M3 levels of stiffness, you'd need to replace the
- upper guide rod
- upper wishbone
- lower camber link
- toe arm
- springs
- anti-roll bar

If you've changed only some of these parts, you'll need to compromise on settings somewhere in between.

[blacktar]

In all honesty, CAL knows WAYYYYYYYY more than I can imagine to even pretend to know.

However, I still stand behind that it really depends on how and what you plan on doing with your car. I'll butt out now, since I gave my humble suggestions, but I am curious how others pitch in. Either way, should be good reading.

[Josh1a1h]

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

Easy enough - with no camber plates in front, go for max camber - that's -1.5°, maybe more.

Rear's -1.5° camber.

Stock toe's fine.

0° thrust angle.


What's your ride height?

Currently on H&R springs... But i will be lowered on coils very shortly... aiming for similar ride height to how it sits now in the pic below

[David1]

I set my alignments to what I want the car to do and how I want it to act. It is good to have a tech that will set it up how you want and at that point the alignment rack just shows you what your at. I can do an alignment with bubble guages and a tape measure if I have to.

Originally Posted by David1

I set my alignments to what I want the car to do and how I want it to act. It is good to have a tech that will set it up how you want and at that point the alignment rack just shows you what your at. I can do an alignment with bubble guages and a tape measure if I have to.

That's fine and dandy and I like doing my own alignments too, but I think what would really be helpful is if peeps were to add exactly what camber/toe settings they are running instead of just stating "it's set to custom specs and I love it!"

Having said that, do you care to share your specs? After refreshing dampers I'll be shooting for the following:
Camber - Front: 1.5* | Rear: 1.5*
Toe - Front: 1/16" total | Rear: 3/16" total

I doubt I'll be able to get 1.5* up front, given that all I'll be doing is pulling the pins, but at any rate whatever I end up with I'll probably just end up doubling in the rear. Is that similar to what you guys are shooting for on your DDs?

[seanblee]

Originally Posted by David1

I set my alignments to what I want the car to do and how I want it to act.

I think that's key. OP, if you're thinking of deviating from the standard spec, presumably there's some aspect of the car's handling that you're not happy with right now. What is it?

[Josh1a1h]

Originally Posted by seanblee

I think that's key. OP, if you're thinking of deviating from the standard spec, presumably there's some aspect of the car's handling that you're not happy with right now. What is it?

To be honest... I hate the understeer in slower tighter corners.

BUT becasue the handling has been off for a good 6 months due to the control arm bush's being worn, the steering and handling has been dangerously off.

So i just want it corrected and handling better than it currently is.

I just do not want any tram lining

[WreckerX5d]

I couldn't go anything past 1.1* front camber with mine. I never knew about pulling the pins because M3 specs are 1.2* and .06* toe.

[kentgbr]

Originally Posted by Josh1a1h

Hi everyone...

It seems that there is no one right answer... and i am getting a whole load of contradicting info...

I have an E92 335i, Lowered on coils... and due to my control arm bushings requiring replacement.... I have opted for the full m3 control arms up front whilst leaving everything stock in the rear.


Now what settings to i tell my alignment shop to set up the car with?

I heard M3 specs can make the car tram line terribly...

I heard 335i Msport Specs can work but then do you lose the benefit of using m3 arms?...

I will also be adding a little more camber in the front just to help with a little bit of rubbing. Do you think this is a bad idea? Or should i be ok? I know it is toe that kills your tyres more than camber...

Cheers

Josh

The shop I used aligned to standard sport pkg specs except for front negative camber which was set to -1.3 degrees as I requested (pins pulled also).

[David1]

Ok, here is my set up. keep in mind I have the M3 arms front and rear, alignment pins are out, BMW performance suspension with the yellow springs and stiffer front bar. I just did the rear subframe bushing inserts from Whiteline. The bushing mod did the most in keeping the rear stable under power while cornering. The rear sub frame moves alot under load with the stock bushings. Tires are Michelin Super Sport 235 front 275 rear. I have tried 3 different set ups in 10k miles and I like this one the best. Very stable under power and trail braking with no tramlining at all. Very responsive steering off center, but I would like the M3 rack to make it quicker.

I like the BMW Kinematics system (many people do not since many tecnitions do not imput the correct options when loading the profile) since it will take into account ride height and load. I had just over half of a tank a fuel when aligned. This set up is very predictive for "me" meaning I can feel what the car is doing and I can mid corner correct by either feathering throttle, alter steering input, or stomping on it rotate the car. I drive In DTC mode as default.

[blacktar]

Man, you guys are conservative with camber. I just want toe to be as close to 0 as possible. But people mock me for being 'only' -2. Now I feel like one of those stance idiots.

[David1]

That is all the negative camber I can get up front (at my ride height) and that is with the M3 arms and the pins pulled. To much rear camber and you loose strait line grip for acceleration and -2 feels perfect for balance. If I could get more up front I would do a little more out back but even at -2 in the rear, the outer edge of the tire is off the ground so any more and the contact patch will get smaller until you corner.

[blacktar]

Originally Posted by David1

That is all the negative camber I can get up front (at my ride height) and that is with the M3 arms and the pins pulled. To much rear camber and you loose strait line grip for acceleration and -2 feels perfect for balance. If I could get more up front I would do a little more out back but even at -2 in the rear, the outer edge of the tire is off the ground so any more and the contact patch will get smaller until you corner.

Makes sense. I have no issues with -2 all around, but I've heard straight-line steering becomes compromised after -3. Shrugs.