[GeorgeJ.]

I just read bmwi.blogspot that the rex will have a 21% smaller gas tank than the Euro market version. That and the inability to start the rex motor before rock bottom as they can across the pond pretty much slams the door shut on buying one of these.

BMW has dumbed down a terrific vehicle to fit some bureaucratic BS and in the process killed it as a viable option for many consumers. I was truly thinking I might turn in my gas guzzling 135i sometime in the next year for one of these however they have just made it useless for me.


To the administrator: Thank you for adding detailed information below to my posting.


Tuesday, April 22, 2014

More Range Extender Details Uncovered At BMW i Dealer Training





BMW has been hosting i3 training events to get their client advisers up to speed and ready to sell the car. I'm very happy to hear they are doing this because I was really beginning to get concerned that they wouldn't properly prepare their sales staff for this unique vehicle. I even dedicated a post a few months ago to this very topic. I've now talked to a few client advisers that have done the training and they reported that they did indeed get a lot of useful information which will help them service their clients.



The i3's tiny fuel tank is seen here at right in front of the battery pack in the center of the car. This is where the heat pump is located and why you cannot get the heat pump if you have an i3 REx
This week the latest round of training sessions are being held up at BMW headquarters in Woodcliff Lake, NJ and details of what is being taught are starting to leak out from some of the client advisers that are there. A couple things of interest shared were details about the range extender the i3 will offer as an option.

First, it was learned that the range extender is automatically activated once the state of charge drops below 6.5%. At that moment, it turns on and it's function is to bring the state of charge back up to 6.5% and to maintain that level of charge. It will not charge the car much above 6.5%, and it will not run if the car is stopped, unless the state of charge is critically low. Therefore you can't it in a stationary i3 and wait for the state of charge to increase. I knew the automatic turn on point was around 5% to 6%, but now we have an exact level when it engages.



US i3 REx customers wish they had the European "hold" feature available
You cannot manually turn the range extender off. This is contrary to what I was told by an i3 product manager at the i3 debut in New York City last July. I remember asking this specific question by saying "What if I knew I'd make it home on electric, say I only had a mile or two to go and the REx was about to turn on, could I just turn it off so it's doesn't fire up?" I was told yes, there will be a setting that will allow you to turn it off before it engages, but that setting will reset once you turn the car off. The reason for that is so that the next time you get in the car you won't forget that you had turned off the REx and you may end up needing it. I would have definitely preferred to be able to turn it off manually, and honestly can't see why that isn't going to be allowed.



The range extender exhaust is tucked away under the car so you can't see the tailpipe unless you crawl underneath to look We also found out that the client advisers have been told that while the range extender is in operation the speed of the car will be electronically limited to 70mph. I'm not buying that; I think they were misinformed. I really think there was a miscommunication on this one because I have had conversations with people at BMW that know a lot about this and even very recently they assured me that there isn't an electronically governed speed limit while the range extender is in operation. I believe the confusion about 70mph is based on the fact that 70mph is basically the top speed that the range extender can comfortably maintain the 6.5% state of charge at while driving on relatively flat ground. The people I've talked to in Europe that have i3's with the range extender say they can drive on the highway at just about 120 km/hr (75mph) and maintain the SOC, but anything higher and the SOC will gradually diminish. It's my contention that the people running the training sessions either aren't 100% clear on this, or they really meant for the client advisers to warn the customers that 70mph is really the fastest they should drive at if they need to drive for a long distance. In any event, I believe they got this one wrong and there isn't an electronic limit, we'll find out pretty soon since the US i3 launch should be in about two weeks.



The BMW i3 range extender is located next to the electric motor and power electronics, over the rear axle. I saved the biggest news for last. It was learned that the US version of the i3 REx will have not have a 2.4 gallon gas tank as the European version does. Instead it will have only a 1.9 gallon gas tank. I'm going to pause for a moment to let everybody scream bloody murder now...... I know it's only half a gallon, but in the case of the i3, that just reduced the gas tank by 21%! For me this is a non-issue, but I know there are a lot of people that will not like this at all. 99% of the time I use the added range of the REx it will likely be for less than 40 miles. Yes, this does reduce the utility of long range trips even more, as you will now probably have to stop for gas every 40 or 50 miles. There was no reasons given for the smaller gas tank but as far as I can imagine, this comes down to one of two things. Since BMW wants needs the i3 REx to qualify as a BEVx and one of the qualifications of the BEVx is that the car has a smaller gasoline range than it does electric range, my thinking is that one of these two things led to the smaller gas tank:

1) The EPA rating for all electric range on the REx came out lower than they believed it would. If they used the 2.4 gallon gas tank, the gas range would be slightly longer than the all electric range, therefore causing it to be disqualified for the BEVx designation. The only simple way to make the gas range less than the electric range was to reduce the gas range by using a smaller gas tank.

2) The EPA rating for the MPG while in range extender mode came out higher than expected, creating the same problem cited above; a longer range in REx mode than in all electric mode. I've heard it gets anywhere from 36mpg to 46mpg from people driving REx's in Europe so this is a possibility. If the range extender got rated at 40mpg, and was using a 2.4 gallon gas tank, then the electric range would need to be 96 miles per charge, which is highly unlikely. If they cut the tank down to 1.9 gallons, then the electric range would only need to be greater than 79 miles per charge, which I believe is attainable, even considering that the REx version will have 6.5% less battery to use than the BEV i3 does, as this is held in reserve as a buffer.

So what do you think? Has any of these new revelations changed you mind about the REx?

[jadnashuanh]

If I get one, I wasn't interested in the REx, so no, it does not change my mind on the vehicle. My anticipated typical use is truly running around town. If I needed to go further than the i3 will take me without the REx, I'd take my 'other' car. I do not see the i3 as a viable ICE replacement, which is one reason why BMW came up with their loaner program - the thing is not designed as a long-distance vehicle, so why chastise it for not having that extended range?

NOw, if we had some of the smaller diesel engines in the USA like available in the rest of the world, if actual mileage with an engine was an issue, like in the rest of the world, a small diesel is a good choice if you only can support one vehicle. For the foreseeable future, a small engine powered generator isn't all that efficient and certainly isn't the green alternative.

[GeorgeJ.]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

If I get one, I wasn't interested in the REx, so no, it does not change my mind on the vehicle. My anticipated typical use is truly running around town. If I needed to go further than the i3 will take me without the REx, I'd take my 'other' car. I do not see the i3 as a viable ICE replacement, which is one reason why BMW came up with their loaner program - the thing is not designed as a long-distance vehicle, so why chastise it for not having that extended range?

NOw, if we had some of the smaller diesel engines in the USA like available in the rest of the world, if actual mileage with an engine was an issue, like in the rest of the world, a small diesel is a good choice if you only can support one vehicle. For the foreseeable future, a small engine powered generator isn't all that efficient and certainly isn't the green alternative.

I understand the BEV version will be fine for you and many others. Another segment of the market would like to be able to use the vehicle as a efficient "green" car and not be constrained by the prescribed range of the battery. The Euro REX "just" qualifies for that purpose and I would give it consideration if available. I am not sure why you seem to say that "if actual mileage with an engine was an issue" because that is my point, it is an issue for me and I imagine quite a few others.

I disagree with your statement that "a small engine powered generator isn't all that efficient and certainly isn't the green alternative". If 95% of my driving is battery and the vehicle has been built in the greenest manner of any car to date that is a heck of a green improvement over my 135i.

Finally the loaner program will certainly have a financial cost not to mention the hassle of driving across the city to pick up the car. And sure I could use my wife's car for the longer weekend transits however the point is I want my car get me around. I am very intrigued and impressed with the i3 and I am simply disappointed that the USA REX falls well short of the Euro version and it a failing of USA bureaucrats and BMW for not valuing the utility of longer transits. A hundred mile round trip in norther California just does not get you very far. I guess I will just continue in my very un-green ways.

[jadnashuanh]

Given that the typical use of the earlier BMW electric vehicles (mini and BMW) traveled an average of 35-miles in daily use...essentially double that would seem to meet all of their needs for the occasional side trip. Certainly, there are people that may need or want to drive further, but it was NOT designed for that.

Electric power generated at a major plant, even including the distribution losses tends to be more efficient in exhaust gasses (plus, most are located a ways from the city center), and generally, produce NO emissions, however clean, verses when the REx is on.

The range on these things will only improve, or they'll end up making it lighter and maintain the same range. The state of the art is advancing.

I think it was Toyota that has announced they will have a fuel cell vehicle for sale in the next year (or it may have been two)...but, the bigger question is where can you buy hydrogen to make it go? VERY few places...you can plug an i3 in nearly anywhere, but it will take awhile to recharge, depending on the source. It's MUCH easier and cheaper to make remote charging stations than develop trucks/pipelines (almost impossible to get approved and at often $1m/mile or more, often not viable) - electric power is almost everywhere. And, if you really want to be green with it, put your own solar cell array in. Not may people have moving water where hydro is viable (not counting the red tape), and windmills may have zoning problems even if you have a location where average wind speeds may be useful. Those are getting better, too, but the visual impact makes them harder to get approval for. A small box on the outside of your building is an easy sell and as more vehicles arrive on the market, more companies will be offering it, either as a perk to shop there, or on a pay-as-you go venture.

[cblandin]

This isn't some BMW green ethos design decision. It is a response to California rules and BMW's desire to drive up sales - nothing more, nothing less. There is no practical advantage in moving from a 2.4 gallon tank to a 1.9 gallon tank short of satisfying a set of "rules" in a state that where folks buy a boatload of cars. I mean c'mon, if this was just Oregon or Wyoming or even Texas do you think BMW would suddenly be reducing the size of the tank to satisfy that on the grounds of "design" or "eco-friendliness"...um...no. Case in point...will they be retrofitting the 1.9 gallon tank in all the European versions of the cars?

[Gonville]

The European gas tank is 9 litres/1.9 Imperial.

The US tank is 2.4 US Gallons which is the same size. Same part number.

There is no conspiracy to reduce US tank size.

[GeorgeJ.]

Originally Posted by Gonville

The European gas tank is 9 litres/1.9 Imperial.

The US tank is 2.4 US Gallons which is the same size. Same part number.

There is no conspiracy to reduce US tank size.

So now that it is here and folks are starting to live with the rex with it's 1.9 gallon tank in the USA and the inability to initiate the rex motor before the SOC is nearly dead I am interested to hear what users think about the utility of the vehicle with these limitations. Had we simply gotten what is sold across the pond I could imagine buying or leasing the i3 rex. As it is I don't see how it can get me away for a weekend to a place one can't plug in. For 98% of driving it would not be an issue though the prospect of putting in a gallon and change every thirty or forty miles to finish a trip seems beyond what I am willing to do.

Anyone think they may eventually go to the big European tank and rex activation at 25% SOC?

[Rapcat]

It's .5 gallon of a difference. A whopping 16.5 mile difference. You can keep filling up the Rex tank and keep going. If you "need" a REX, you aren't an i3 buyer. It's just for emergency situations and to ease "range anxiety". I am getting a BEV model and have no need for the REX. I'll just come home, plug it in and take my E36 out for a few hours while the i3 charges up. But rarely do I drive more than 100 miles in a day.
I'll probably drive in comfort mode most days and only put it on Eco pro when I'm running a bunch of errands.
There aren't many public chargers where i live, so a Rex seemed appealing at first but the loss in efficiency and the added weight turned me off. I just got the home charger installed and that should allow me to come home and charge up "real quick".

I also heard the Rex won't go over 55, but obviously I think that's false. It is locked on Eco pro + mode which disables the climate control and this makes the car unusable in my hot climate. Another reason why Rex mode is usual was to me. But everyone has their different circumstances and different driving habits, so the Rex works for some.

[GeorgeJ.]

Originally Posted by Rapcat

It's .5 gallon of a difference. A whopping 16.5 mile difference.

A small difference for sure though when combined with the ability to initiate the rex the difference is material. If you can start the rex with 25% charge then you can run through all the gas and then go battery to the next gas station. Topped up run on gas until out again.

Running at nearly dead battery and a thinner margin on gas just makes the six times a year transit where real distance is required a consideration for me. Sure I could drive my wife's 328 wagon. I just want what I want and so I am taking opportunities to encourage change.

As noted before 98% of the time I could get by with the BEV version. I just want to get around on battery in my day to day driving, yet have the capacity to drive to Carmel or Santa Rosa for the weekend and just plan on a couple fill ups to get me home comfortably.

Of course I could just migrate from my 135 to a 235, I just think going green(er) would be good and I am fascinated by the technology and enjoy how it drives.

[mindmachine]

Originally Posted by Rapcat

It's .5 gallon of a difference. A whopping 16.5 mile difference. You can keep filling up the Rex tank and keep going. If you "need" a REX, you aren't an i3 buyer. It's just for emergency situations and to ease "range anxiety". I am getting a BEV model and have no need for the REX. I'll just come home, plug it in and take my E36 out for a few hours while the i3 charges up. But rarely do I drive more than 100 miles in a day.
I'll probably drive in comfort mode most days and only put it on Eco pro when I'm running a bunch of errands.
There aren't many public chargers where i live, so a Rex seemed appealing at first but the loss in efficiency and the added weight turned me off. I just got the home charger installed and that should allow me to come home and charge up "real quick".

I also heard the Rex won't go over 55, but obviously I think that's false. It is locked on Eco pro + mode which disables the climate control and this makes the car unusable in my hot climate. Another reason why Rex mode is usual was to me. But everyone has their different circumstances and different driving habits, so the Rex works for some.

Your facts are wrong, it is not locked in eco pro + mode and it will go 70 or 80 MPH or more with the rex engaged. The power of the rex was updated by BMW as well in order to supply more power to compensate for the US set up.

[Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel]

Originally Posted by mindmachine

Your facts are wrong, it is not locked in eco pro + mode and it will go 70 or 80 MPH or more with the rex engaged. The power of the rex was updated by BMW as well in order to supply more power to compensate for the US set up.

yea....whoever told the other guy that when the REX is active it locks the car into Eco Pro+ mode is completely 100% wrong.

I am a little irked that we for the USDM market cannot manually engage the REX whenever we want, but I think that may change at some point in the future. Keep your eyes peeled!

[GeorgeJ.]

Originally Posted by Kevin_Genius@BMWMtLaurel

yea....whoever told the other guy that when the REX is active it locks the car into Eco Pro+ mode is completely 100% wrong.

I am a little irked that we for the USDM market cannot manually engage the REX whenever we want, but I think that may change at some point in the future. Keep your eyes peeled!

I am hoping BMW keeps an eye on many of these forums and reads what people are saying. Further I hope there are enough voices like mine. I am really taken by the i3 and would love to get one if BMW would just make it function like other markets. Even if the rex only kicks in a handful of times a year the practical (by my definition) use of it is important for me. The rest of the time I'd get a charge out of buzzing around San Francisco on electricity and saving the world one gallon at a time (kidding of course, though enough electric cars and it will make a difference).

I have real hopes for BMW's i brand as the rest of the fleet grows ever more portly.

[Rapcat]

Originally Posted by mindmachine

Your facts are wrong, it is not locked in eco pro + mode and it will go 70 or 80 MPH or more with the rex engaged. The power of the rex was updated by BMW as well in order to supply more power to compensate for the US set up.

I hope you're right. But also, I just picked up my i3 yesterday and would have felt better driving it home if I had a REX. Drove 55mph up the grapevine, so even if I were stuck in Eco pro+ it would have been fine. But I really can't wait for the Rex models to hit the ground and get some good reviews in.

[MikeSI3]

I think that the REX is already there and there are plenty of reviews. Look at Tom Moloughney
i3 Blog:
http://bmwi3.blogspot.com