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      04-29-2014, 12:18 PM   #1
utenigma
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Oil temp on track - plz weigh in

For the 335 guys (328 are welcome to contribute as well, just don't know if it's an apples to oranges question) what oil temps to you get to on the track?

After just a few laps, I'm well past the 250 mark, and after 5 or 6 hard laps, I'm starting to edge into the 3/4 mark on the gauge (which I think would be something like 295, (340-250)/2)

I've gone past that once at an autocross and the car went to limp mode, so now I'm a little paranoid to get left out due to heat, so when I see it get say 285,290 or so, I back off and take somewhat of a cool-down lap. Temp comes right down, just wastes a few minutes of track time

Wondering what you guys are seeing - a little concerned it's not going to get way worse as the summer progresses. Had amb temps in the 90's this weekend and it's not unheard of to have temps in the 105's down here

I put in a Wagner competition intercooler this Christmas hoping to alleviate any issue, and it's helped, but not the silver bullet. Thinking maybe meth injection now just for temp control. Another oil cooler would be a great idea, but haven't seen any for this platform.

Opinions? Observations?
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      04-29-2014, 02:24 PM   #2
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At Sebring on days that were high 80's I haven't seem more than 248. This is with stock M-sport 335 stock intercooler and stock oil cooler.

Even more interesting is this was running Stage 2 Jb4 on map 2 or map 5 with about 35% E85.

I did one log using the Jb4 mobile interface, I see if I can sort through the 100k lines of csv for average IAT's and oil temps.
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      04-29-2014, 02:46 PM   #3
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i think E85 helps keep you're engine cooler as it burns cooler than regular pump gas.
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      04-29-2014, 04:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-terkait
i think E85 helps keep you're engine cooler as it burns cooler than regular pump gas.
Yea, sure does.
I'm not sure it's a significant decrease though. I ran 2 of 4 events with E85 and the other two with 108 octane and they were about the same.

Different days, too many variables to take into consideration.

I was surprised at how well it stayed under 250 considering pushing the car at about 8/10's running relatively higher boost pressure with stock timing curves.

My high level comment to the OP would be it seems a bit high , but maybe he's a much better driver than I am ;-).

I'd have to go check my program tables for my E9X 335 and see when the ECU starts pulling timing for IAT and Oil temp but if I recall its 128 and 256 consecutively. Maybe the same for N55 or maybe different.
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      04-29-2014, 06:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill View Post
I'd have to go check my program tables for my E9X 335 and see when the ECU starts pulling timing for IAT and Oil temp but if I recall its 128 and 256 consecutively. Maybe the same for N55 or maybe different.
Should be higher for the N55 as it's a DI motor

My IAT's were way over 128 and temp way over 256 and I saw no drop in timing

Coolant temp topped out at ~240, IAT's up to 150 and recover quickly to the 120 range in 90 degree ambient

I think I'm missing an oil cooler as I'm not an M-Sport, and some airflow both to the intercooler and oil cooler what with the fog light in the way and all

Would be interesting if the best fix to the problem was a different front bumper

Anybody not using e85 or race gas? I was on 94 pump gas
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      04-29-2014, 06:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill View Post
I'd have to go check my program tables for my E9X 335 and see when the ECU starts pulling timing for IAT and Oil temp but if I recall its 128 and 256 consecutively. Maybe the same for N55 or maybe different.
Should be higher for the N55 as it's a DI motor

My IAT's were way over 128 and temp way over 256 and I saw no drop in timing

Coolant temp topped out at ~240, IAT's up to 150 and recover quickly to the 120 range in 90 degree ambient

I think I'm missing an oil cooler as I'm not an M-Sport, and some airflow both to the intercooler and oil cooler what with the fog light in the way and all

Would be interesting if the best fix to the problem was a different front bumper

Anybody not using e85 or race gas? I was on 94 pump gas
N54 is a DI motor as well, so that's irrelevant.
You didn't mention your mods, what's done to your car?
You are missing an oil cooler that is included on the M-Sport, and that's absolutely an area you want to look at-specifically if your running higher than stock boost.

When you mention you didn't see any timing drops, how are you monitoring this? Do you run data logging with a jb4?
I also have MPPK, but that really shouldn't matter.

It may take a while as there's not a whole lot of people giving real world feedback in this forum except DVC, Ronin and a few others so let's see what the others have to say..
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      04-29-2014, 07:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill
Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetbill View Post
I'd have to go check my program tables for my E9X 335 and see when the ECU starts pulling timing for IAT and Oil temp but if I recall its 128 and 256 consecutively. Maybe the same for N55 or maybe different.
Should be higher for the N55 as it's a DI motor

My IAT's were way over 128 and temp way over 256 and I saw no drop in timing

Coolant temp topped out at ~240, IAT's up to 150 and recover quickly to the 120 range in 90 degree ambient

I think I'm missing an oil cooler as I'm not an M-Sport, and some airflow both to the intercooler and oil cooler what with the fog light in the way and all

Would be interesting if the best fix to the problem was a different front bumper

Anybody not using e85 or race gas? I was on 94 pump gas
N54 is a DI motor as well, so that's irrelevant.
You didn't mention your mods, what's done to your car?
You are missing an oil cooler that is included on the M-Sport, and that's absolutely an area you want to look at-specifically if your running higher than stock boost.

When you mention you didn't see any timing drops, how are you monitoring this? Do you run data logging with a jb4?
I also have MPPK, but that really shouldn't matter.

It may take a while as there's not a whole lot of people giving real world feedback in this forum except DVC, Ronin and a few others so let's see what the others have to say..
JB4 on custom map 6-somewhere between map 1 and 2. Basically starts at 8 psi then ramps to 13 @4k then tapers off after 5500

Logging over obd2. Have afr, ign adv, ambient and iat, rpm, throttle pos etc etc

Also running an ER cat less down pipe and Wagner competition intercooler. No meth, no e85, no race gas
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      04-29-2014, 10:35 PM   #8
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Check your coolant mixture and maybe oil level?
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      05-01-2014, 01:10 AM   #9
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regarding apples to oranges..first 35 seconds. lol.

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      05-01-2014, 07:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3
regarding apples to oranges..first 35 seconds. lol.

Ahh..that was great. Enjoyed that...
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      05-20-2014, 01:13 PM   #11
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OP, the oil temps you described are the same as what I have seen in my Z435 (N54 engine, DCT gearbox) during 90F ambient temperature days here in Socal. The car goes into power reduction after a few laps.

I haven't had a chance to track my F30 335 yet, but I am expecting the same issues. My 335 is sport line, so it has the 600W radiator fan and oil cooler, same as the Z4

The F30 335 M sport models have 850W radiator fan, same oil cooler and additional radiator in front of the driver side tire. I think this could be why you are seeing such different temps from jetbill, whose car has more cooling equipment

I tracked an F30 328 and the oil temps stayed below 250F. Ambient temps were 50F. I think the N55 makes more heat than N20 due to the higher power
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      05-20-2014, 02:43 PM   #12
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You may see a scorched crank bearing soon
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      05-20-2014, 11:38 PM   #13
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Huh, I was just at Buttonwillow last Friday with the BMW Car Club and with ambient temps above 100f I my F30's oil temp never went above 250.
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      05-21-2014, 06:54 AM   #14
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On a Mild Fall day last year, my 335i NON M sport went into Limp mode twice on Lime Rock due to heat....

First time was end of 2nd tracking session (so about 38 minutes total)...had to go easy 3rd 20 minute session, and 4th limped again before I went home.

Oil temp's were under 250, which is what confused me and the instructor. I was running 104 octane (VP?)

I have the MPPK, so have decided to skip more track events until an oil cooling or reliable IC solution are offered....

Maybe Lime Rock is just a difficult track on our N55 engines?
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      05-21-2014, 05:15 PM   #15
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Coolant temp can trigger limp mode, and I believe gearbox temp can too

Did you pull any codes?
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      05-21-2014, 07:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz
Coolant temp can trigger limp mode, and I believe gearbox temp can too

Did you pull any codes?
Never threw a code

Checked with the jb4
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      05-21-2014, 10:39 PM   #17
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Brake temps can trigger limp mode too.
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      05-22-2014, 05:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioK View Post
Brake temps can trigger limp mode too.
(as I'm sure you know) When this happens, it is very obvious because a brake warning shows up on the screen (I was driving a base car with no iDrive when this happened) asking you to ease up on the brakes.

I thought it was pretty hilarious when I got this message
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      05-22-2014, 03:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioK View Post
Brake temps can trigger limp mode too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
(as I'm sure you know) When this happens, it is very obvious because a brake warning shows up on the screen (I was driving a base car with no iDrive when this happened) asking you to ease up on the brakes.

I thought it was pretty hilarious when I got this message
Brake temps can't trigger a code - there's no brake temp sensor on the car

You might have triggered the brake wear indicator, either by it rattling loose or actual brake wear. Or the DSC noticed that the brakes weren't working and the brake fade compensator wasn't keeping up.
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      05-22-2014, 08:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
Brake temps can't trigger a code - there's no brake temp sensor on the car

You might have triggered the brake wear indicator, either by it rattling loose or actual brake wear. Or the DSC noticed that the brakes weren't working and the brake fade compensator wasn't keeping up.
I can't find the picture I took of the car's screen. The message was about the brake load being too high and asking the driver to slow down.

If "the DSC noticed that the brakes weren't working and the brake fade compensator wasn't keeping up" and the car throws a code and reduces power, that sounds a lot like brake temps causing limp mode to me
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      05-23-2014, 08:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I can't find the picture I took of the car's screen. The message was about the brake load being too high and asking the driver to slow down.

If "the DSC noticed that the brakes weren't working and the brake fade compensator wasn't keeping up" and the car throws a code and reduces power, that sounds a lot like brake temps causing limp mode to me
Sorry, yes excessive brake temps could be the source of that error, but not the measured parameter that threw the code.

If you change the pads out to race compounds, and the fluid out to race fluid, you can get the brakes a lot hotter than you ever could with the stock pads without fade.

Around 400 degrees F, the stock pads are like sponges and the brake fade compensator will recognize it's operating outside of it's designed parameters and throw a code. Replace the stock pads with race pads, you'll be able to get the pads/rotors crazy hot with no fade at all and no codes from the computer.

The point I was trying to make was the car wasn't throwing a code because the brakes got too hot - it was throwing a code because the brakes were fading too much. In your case with stock pads, heat was likely the cause of the fade.
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      05-23-2014, 11:59 AM   #22
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Yup, agreed.

My old WRX had carbotech track pads, stainless brake lines and higher boiling point brake fluid, so I am definitely aware of the advantages and drawbacks.

It took me 30 minutes to overheat the brakes on a stock 328 at Toronto Motorsports Park. Granted, it is not a long track and not very hard on breaks, but I was still pleasantly surprised by how long the stock brakes held up.
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