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View Poll Results: Please BMW M ... bring for the fans an M3/M4CSL with and lightly modified S65 !?l
Yes 18 40.91%
No 26 59.09%
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      05-09-2014, 02:52 AM   #1
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M3/M4 CSL with S65 engine !?

Because of the not overall good engine review ... whats about an limited F8x M3/M4 CSL with an lightly modified S65, the old M-DCT and some nice CRT-Seats?

As I said some times before, the new M3/M4 is an very good car and an more than worthy new M3 ... but with an lightly modified S65 with 440-460hp and 430-450Nm this car would be the absolute burner and dream M3 !!!
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      05-09-2014, 09:01 AM   #2
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Not overall good engine review? That's a bit of a stretch.
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      05-09-2014, 09:16 AM   #3
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Its not going to happen...

But not everybody has issues with the engine...
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      05-09-2014, 09:39 AM   #4
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Most of the negativity around the engine relates to the engine note and slower throttle response than the S65. Most of the reviews love the added torque and are impressed by how responsive it is, *for a turbo engine*.
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      05-09-2014, 10:00 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Its not going to happen...
That´s right ... sadly

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
But not everybody has issues with the engine...
But many well known car journalists make such comments ... and in my point of view "good for an turbo engine" is also no 10 of 10 comment !

The new M3/M4 loose a lot of its in 40 years of development perfected engine characteristics, that seems to be an fact. Would be interesting what SPORTAUTO have to say about this engine ... the comments on the 430hp Alpina B3 I6 BiTurbo were not so good - in terms of drivin´g on track.
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      05-09-2014, 12:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
That´s right ... sadly



But many well known car journalists make such comments ... and in my point of view "good for an turbo engine" is also no 10 of 10 comment !

The new M3/M4 loose a lot of its in 40 years of development perfected engine characteristics, that seems to be an fact. Would be interesting what SPORTAUTO have to say about this engine ... the comments on the 430hp Alpina B3 I6 BiTurbo were not so good - in terms of drivin´g on track.
No, what BMW is planning for the m4m3 csl is the installation of the w16 Veyron engine, and 6 wheel drive. Additional development with 16 turbos and 2476 hp.
I just googled it and wow!
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      05-09-2014, 07:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwm5e60 View Post
No, what BMW is planning for the m4m3 csl is the installation of the w16 Veyron engine, and 6 wheel drive. Additional development with 16 turbos and 2476 hp.
I just googled it and wow!
More info.....> And you need to wear a parachute to drive it !
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      05-09-2014, 11:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
That´s right ... sadly



But many well known car journalists make such comments ... and in my point of view "good for an turbo engine" is also no 10 of 10 comment !

The new M3/M4 loose a lot of its in 40 years of development perfected engine characteristics, that seems to be an fact. Would be interesting what SPORTAUTO have to say about this engine ... the comments on the 430hp Alpina B3 I6 BiTurbo were not so good - in terms of drivin´g on track.
The turbo has been mentioned time and again by these journalists you're citing that it is the superior engine for performance due to it's power band and torque. The alpina is a tuned N55, when have they ever tuned a motor that is comparable to a bespoke M motor? Criticism has been aimed mainly at the aura, not performance, thus I'm not sure what other engine characteristics you're referring to.

Putting a lower performance engine into this car is just nonsense, besides the fact a higher output CSL version would be easier to achieve with a turbo engine anyways.
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      05-26-2014, 06:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallshortguy View Post
Criticism has been aimed mainly at the aura, not performance, thus I'm not sure what other engine characteristics you're referring to.
NO ... criticism has been aimed mainly at the power delivery characteristic of the engine !!!

As I said before ... I bet an F8xM3/M4 with an slighly modified S65 with ~440hp and 430Nm would be minimum as fast as the same car with the S55 - but with much more emotional fun because of the engine characteristics.
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      05-26-2014, 06:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
NO ... criticism has been aimed mainly at the power delivery characteristic of the engine !!!

As I said before ... I bet an F8xM3/M4 with an slighly modified S65 with ~440hp and 430Nm would be minimum as fast as the same car with the S55 - but with much more emotional fun because of the engine characteristics.
I understand how individuals can like a certain engine and it characteristics. However, eventually reality has to sink in and all of the hypotheticals don't carry much weight. Everyone is entitled to "dream" and their own opinion. But if BMW doesn't provide that "perfect engine" anymore, simply move on. A lot of the posts about the new M3/M4, specifically what is not right or perfect with it, are just so repetitive. It doesn't seem like the best use of time. I bought a new 2012 E92 M3 and sold it for my M4. I liked my 2011 S4 with its supercharged engine, and I like the V8 (with more torque) in my 2011 Cayenne S. The last normally aspirated engine I really enjoyed was at a track event in a Audi R8 V10 plus. That was a robust engine and didn't feel week anywhere in the rev range regardless of what gear it was in. So hypothetically, stick that engine in the new M3/M4, but give it KERS and a flux capacitor.
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      05-26-2014, 07:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMB View Post
I understand how individuals can like a certain engine and it characteristics. However, eventually reality has to sink in and all of the hypotheticals don't carry much weight. Everyone is entitled to "dream" and their own opinion. But if BMW doesn't provide that "perfect engine" anymore, simply move on. A lot of the posts about the new M3/M4, specifically what is not right or perfect with it, are just so repetitive. It doesn't seem like the best use of time. I bought a new 2012 E92 M3 and sold it for my M4. I liked my 2011 S4 with its supercharged engine, and I like the V8 (with more torque) in my 2011 Cayenne S. The last normally aspirated engine I really enjoyed was at a track event in a Audi R8 V10 plus. That was a robust engine and didn't feel week anywhere in the rev range regardless of what gear it was in. So hypothetically, stick that engine in the new M3/M4, but give it KERS and a flux capacitor.
You are right ... and I can underwrite this !!!

BUT my problem with the new engine is not that the great S65 has died ... if all car brands drops their NA-engine because of fuel milage laws, we have to accept this. What I will not except is, that they choose the layout of the S55 mainly because of cost reduction reasons ... there are some other engines in the BMW engine portfolio that are much better suited for an M turbo engine with an racing like engine characteristic than the N55(N54).

AND I an no dreamer, but for me its totally clear, that the new M3/M4 is not so fast because of its engine, but in spite of his engine ... there are many other things in the new M3/M4, which make its as fast as it is.
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      05-26-2014, 08:18 AM   #12
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Why would BMW want to make a slower car with S65? Makes zero sense.

Just buy E9X version.
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      05-26-2014, 08:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOM3 View Post
Why would BMW want to make a slower car with S65? Makes zero sense.
This I don´t beleave !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOM3 View Post
Just buy E9X version.
Why should I buy an clearly inferior car, if the new one also looks so much better.

This is no E9xM3 vs. F8xM3/M4 thing !!!
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      05-26-2014, 08:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
This I don´t beleave !!!


Why should I buy an clearly inferior car, if the new one also looks so much better.

This is no E9xM3 vs. F8xM3/M4 thing !!!
I'm not sure if you are joking with me but have you ever seen S54 being transplanted to E9X platform? Answer is no and for a good reason.

Same applies here.
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      05-26-2014, 09:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOM3 View Post
I'm not sure if you are joking with me but have you ever seen S54 being transplanted to E9X platform? Answer is no and for a good reason.
Because the S65 was really so much better in all technical apects than the S54 that such an change make really no sence !?

So what the S55 could really better than the S65 ... except more torque and better gas milage ???
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      05-26-2014, 09:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post

So what the S55 could really better than the S65 ... except more torque and better gas milage ???
Add to that more HP and lighter (although not by much). So S55 is better in every possible way...what's your point?
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      05-26-2014, 10:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOM3 View Post
Add to that more HP and lighter (although not by much). So S55 is better in every possible way...what's your point?
11hp more doesn´t count very much ... don´t think you would feel it !

And according to my informations the S55 weights 205kg - complete with all parts(!) ... and new M-DCT(as best gearbox option) is also some kg heavier than the old one ... so engine and gearbox weights the same, if S65 and it DCT weights not a little bit less ... doesn´t count much, but less weight is so also no proper argument !!!
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      05-26-2014, 10:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
You are right ... and I can underwrite this !!!

BUT my problem with the new engine is not that the great S65 has died ... if all car brands drops their NA-engine because of fuel milage laws, we have to accept this. What I will not except is, that they choose the layout of the S55 mainly because of cost reduction reasons ... there are some other engines in the BMW engine portfolio that are much better suited for an M turbo engine with an racing like engine characteristic than the N55(N54).

AND I an no dreamer, but for me its totally clear, that the new M3/M4 is not so fast because of its engine, but in spite of his engine ... there are many other things in the new M3/M4, which make its as fast as it is.
Your points are well taken and you do contribute to this forum in a positive way. I feel that there are so many variables involved in the automotive industry that it makes this a complex issue to explain why one company chooses to go a certain direction versus another.
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      05-26-2014, 10:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
You are right ... and I can underwrite this !!!

BUT my problem with the new engine is not that the great S65 has died ... if all car brands drops their NA-engine because of fuel milage laws, we have to accept this. What I will not except is, that they choose the layout of the S55 mainly because of cost reduction reasons ... there are some other engines in the BMW engine portfolio that are much better suited for an M turbo engine with an racing like engine characteristic than the N55(N54).

AND I an no dreamer, but for me its totally clear, that the new M3/M4 is not so fast because of its engine, but in spite of his engine ... there are many other things in the new M3/M4, which make its as fast as it is.
we know there's no way they're bringing back the S65. if you want one, go buy a used e90. if you have money to waste, do a swap for an ungodly amount (though you're better off just buying a GT3).

also, people need to stop bitching about the cost efficiencies of the S55. take a look at how steady they kept the price compared to the outgoing M3. I think most would agree that the price is quite fair (frustrations over the exec pack bundling, notwithstanding).

also, I'm curious - what better engine platform within their lineup was there for them to use?
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      05-26-2014, 11:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef View Post

also, I'm curious - what better engine platform within their lineup was there for them to use?
For an 3.0ltr.V6 BiTurbo or an 4.0ltr.V8 BiTurbo -> S63Tü !
For an 3.0ltr.I6 BiTurbo --> an half N74 !
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      05-26-2014, 11:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
For an 3.0ltr.V6 BiTurbo or an 4.0ltr.V8 BiTurbo -> S63Tü !
For an 3.0ltr.I6 BiTurbo --> an half N74 !
those aren't existing engine platforms. they'd never use the V8 since the M3 always has historically had two fewer cylinders than the M5/6, and making a V6 out of that block isn't nearly as simple as lopping off two cylinders.
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      05-26-2014, 11:13 AM   #22
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the reality is that BMW has wisely (I think, but time will tell), steered toward a cost-efficient 6 cylinder platform that's still capable of big power.

although I would have wished for a tweaked S65 V8 (I think with direct injection and improved tuning, they could have easily squeezed an extra 50hp out of it with ever-so-slightly improved MPG), and I would have happily paid a significant premium for it (I'm thinking they would have priced it $20k higher), it just isn't the way the wind is blowing these days over in Europe.
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