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      06-08-2014, 07:27 PM   #1
mxa121
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M3/4 VS Comparable car list (Fuel Economy, Engine, Power, Weight)

A table formatted list to compare the stats of cars in the M3/4 world. If you have a comment or suggestion just let me know. For a background of why this list exists, just check out below.



VehicleDisplacementInductionHorsepowerSpecific PowerWeightUS MPG
Audi RS54.2NA450107400916/23
Audi S64.0T420105439817/27
BMW M43.0T425141353017/26
BMW M64.4T560127425514/20
BMW M54.4T560127435414/20
BMW M235i3.0T320107350522/32
BMW M3 E463.2NA333104341516/24
BMW M3 E924.0NA414104370414/20
Cadillac CTS-V6.2SC55690422014/19
Chevrolet C76.2NA45072329817/29
Jaguar F-Type R5.0SC49599 363816/23
Mercedes CLA45 AMG2.0T355177 349419/25
Mercedes C63 AMG6.2NA45173 392413/19
Nissan G-TR3.8T545143385116/23
Porsche 9113.8T545137351617/24
Porsche 9113.4NA350103308620/28


Just a list made to compare cars based around the idea the specific power output is related to fuel economy. I will try to keep adding cars to the list for comparison, if you have a request, let me know. This came about since many complained that the 17/26 mpg was not sufficient for the M3/4. Many compared it to the higher achieving MPG of the C7 stingray or the Audi S6, but I feel that the M4 has an engine that is tuned higher, and therefore is more thirsty.

Comparisons to cars with much larger engines and much less specific power output seems trivial. In general, a smaller engine that is "hopped up" if you will, consumes more fuel than a similar sized engine that is less potent. I wonder what the F1 cars consume with their tiny displacements...

This list is the best I could do in finding accurate information, if you feel the need to correct any of these numbers, I am sure you will let me know.

Note that turbos help the EPA numbers when compared to engines with similar displacements and power output... AWD, weight, short gearing, and drag will hurt the EPA numbers.

Do not underestimate the power (see what I did there) of specific outputs relative to fuel efficiency.

With that, the idea that higher specific output means lower fuel economy is not a bulletproof idea, as it relies on too many other variables.
With enough data points, one could lay out a graph, and see that a curve would probably emerge showing a non linear relationship.
Hell, I could probably make a formula out of all these numbers if I wanted to waste even more time!

Disclaimer, I am sure many will have retorts to this information, theory, idea, but keep in mind this is more an experiment than anything else and I decided to put the list here to share information.

Last edited by mxa121; 06-15-2014 at 09:04 PM..
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      06-08-2014, 07:41 PM   #2
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Thanks.
I didn't know S6 is heavier than M5!
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      06-08-2014, 08:21 PM   #3
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Can you add the Jag FType R coupe to the listm
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      06-08-2014, 08:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinim3 View Post
Can you add the Jag FType R coupe to the listm
Added CTSV and FType R
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      06-08-2014, 09:38 PM   #5
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isn't M5 14/20? I think it's the same as M6
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      06-08-2014, 09:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M6-Coupe View Post
isn't M5 14/20? I think it's the same as M6
Fixed, the 15/22 was not US spec.
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      06-08-2014, 10:03 PM   #7
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Great job... also M3 (F80), RS7
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      06-08-2014, 11:00 PM   #8
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Cool idea! Good for a quick reference and comparison. I find myself looking at weights and power... and not at all at cD. But love the idea!!
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      06-09-2014, 12:57 AM   #9
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Thx for putting the F type R up.

What's your source for the e46 M3? Some cites say 14/22 but most sites say 16/24. My experience has been it's 16/24
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      06-09-2014, 02:13 AM   #10
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a RS5 weights 4000 pounds! car is a pig!
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      06-09-2014, 10:31 PM   #11
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Nice list.

Audi are lard-arses
Merc have done a great job with that 2.0 litre
Surprised the GTR has such a low cD
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      06-09-2014, 10:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinim3 View Post
Thx for putting the F type R up.

What's your source for the e46 M3? Some cites say 14/22 but most sites say 16/24. My experience has been it's 16/24
No problem.
I used fueleconomy.gov for that one.
Further searching on some forums reveal 16/24, I will update that number.
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      06-09-2014, 10:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy335 View Post
Nice list.

Audi are lard-arses
Merc have done a great job with that 2.0 litre
Surprised the GTR has such a low cD
The GTR is surprisingly slippery. Boxy must imply more drag, but the Nissan engineers figured it out.

Have a look at this video around the 11:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9faC-XExtc
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      06-10-2014, 07:38 AM   #14
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Thanks for the list. Couple of comments that came to mind:

Looking at final drive ratios without knowledge of the transmission gearing (and of course engine powerband) imparts no knowledge really.

Also, "comparing" Cd values is also a moot point as it does not allow a comparison of aero drag between cars. To actually have a comparison you need to multiply the Cd times the frontal area for each car to arrive at (Cd x A). Now you can actually compare aerodynamic drag between different cars.

Regards,
Chuck
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      06-10-2014, 11:51 AM   #15
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Nice list. I'd suggest a BBCode table for this application:

http://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

Also, perhaps more AMG models such as the C63 and E63.

Finally it would be cool to see some columns with quick indicators (maybe green up-arrow, red down-arrow) for specific output relative to M3 and fuel economy relative to M3. Maybe a turbo/NA column too.
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      06-11-2014, 09:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Thanks for the list. Couple of comments that came to mind:

Looking at final drive ratios without knowledge of the transmission gearing (and of course engine powerband) imparts no knowledge really.

Also, "comparing" Cd values is also a moot point as it does not allow a comparison of aero drag between cars. To actually have a comparison you need to multiply the Cd times the frontal area for each car to arrive at (Cd x A). Now you can actually compare aerodynamic drag between different cars.

Regards,
Chuck
Those points are well put, Chuck. I will remove them

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Nice list. I'd suggest a BBCode table for this application:

http://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

Also, perhaps more AMG models such as the C63 and E63.

Finally it would be cool to see some columns with quick indicators (maybe green up-arrow, red down-arrow) for specific output relative to M3 and fuel economy relative to M3. Maybe a turbo/NA column too.
Good tip, I need to check bbcode out. Maybe I can make it easier to modify and add more features.
I have tried putting in a table and followed the example, but it does not work. Any advice?

[table]
[tr]
[th]Make[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Audi[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Last edited by mxa121; 06-11-2014 at 09:51 PM..
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      06-11-2014, 11:10 PM   #17
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^^^ I got it to work using different tags. Reply to this post with quote to see the code.

VehicleEPA EconomyDisplacementAspirationPowerSpecific PowerWeight
Audi S617/274.0LT420hp105 hp/L4398 lbs

Note: Make sure there is no white space within the table tags or you'll get blank lines above the table.
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      06-12-2014, 10:06 AM   #18
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Can you add US MSRP and lbft of torque?
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      06-12-2014, 05:28 PM   #19
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I think the hp/L calculation is off for the Stingray...

I am however assuming that you are calculating horsepower per liter of fuel consumed and NOT displacement of the engine.

Thanks

Edit: nevermind. I see that it is hp/L(of displacement). I would really like to see a curve of horsepower per unit fuel consumed. I mean, we all buy cars to drive them and the direct cost to drive a car is what you pay at the pump. It would be nice to see which cars offer the most amount of power at the least amount of running cost, not including price, depreciation, insurance, etc...
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      06-13-2014, 06:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
^^^ I got it to work using different tags. Reply to this post with quote to see the code.
You are the man! I updated the original post, it looks much better I think.
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      06-13-2014, 07:28 PM   #21
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Fuel consumption for C63-507 is the same (13/19 mpg) at 507 HP.
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      06-14-2014, 05:38 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
You are the man! I updated the original post, it looks much better I think.
Nice
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