[acediac]

Guys, I need your help

I just bought a 2010 E90 335i two weeks ago. The car is a one owner with low mileage (35k miles) with the N54 engine. There were slight signs of a minor accident involving the undertray (torn) and the bottom of the front bumper (deformed), but the chassis seemed straight and the rest of the car looked great. I paid a mechanic to take a look, and he said that there were no oil leaks, engine looked clean and everything looked fine.

I got the dealer to give me a replacement undertray when I found out that the clip screw points under the bumper had been ripped. Today I went to change the undertray and found oil coming from somewhere under the intake manifold. I'm did look over the engine bay carefully before I bought the car, so if this oil was there before delivery, I'm pretty sure I should have noticed it.

Now bear in mind I am new to BMWs (this is my first one), although I have been trying to learn as much as I can from this forum and other resources. So some of my descriptions etc. may be wrong, and I am trying to figure out what is "normal" and what is not. (Car drives fine so far, seems to be smooth and power comes on strong.)

I started taking things apart to try and see what the problem was.
1) I took off the HVAC and cowl, and the airbox and the engine cover.
2) I found that there was a cable tie holding the intake pipe to the manifold! I assume that is NOT standard?? The plastic pipe is not tight on the cast metal part of the intake even though it has some sort of clip on it. I presume this is why they put a cable tie there. (WTF!)
3) No oil leaks from oil filter, rocker cover, spark plug area
4) Found oil in the blow off valves (I think that's what they are, labeled V1 and V2 in pictures)
5) no oil in the air box or the two pipes leading out from the air box.
6) I have not checked the oil level for a week when it was at max level, I will do that when I next drive the car

My questions are:
1) WHY is the oil there?
2) The only thing I can think of is that there is a lot of oil coming from the PCV into the intake, and because the fitting is loose, the oil is pissing out everywhere.
3) If that is true, is it normal to have so much oil coming from the PCV?
4) Could it be a blowby problem?
5) Should that intake pipe joint be very tight? (I presume so since the intake is under pressure??)
6) Could the oil be coming from the turbos??? (if so, how?)
7) The other thing is, I have noticed a couple of other steel pipes that seem to have been crushed, possibly in an accident? One before the cat, and especially one next to the steering rod - bear in mind this is a right hand drive car. I don't know what pipe this is at the moment. There is no surface damage on the pipes, so maybe it's "normal"??


I need to get any problems with the car sorted in the next month while it is still recently delivered, so I want to be able to go to the dealer and tell them what is wrong, otherwise they will just say the car drives fine and weasel out of anything.

I have reached the limit of my knowledge on these cars, so please help me.. If the intake pipe is replaced and the joint is tight, the symptom should disappear, but would I just be sweeping problems under the carpet?

Is there anything else I can look at to help the diagnosis?

PLEASE HELP, I beg you! I paid good money for what I thought was a mint condition car, and it's turning out to be a nightmare....

[007_e350]

Thats the oil in intake we all suffer from ... your CP has a ring inside and a metal clip ontop that clicks to hold it with TB, just make sure both those are there, also there's a bolt on the CP arm,

the Vs are diverter valves, all have oil - also if you opened up intake you'd see gunked up intake valves ... just the nature of design ... I'd look under valve cover / inside where spark plugs are or under oil filter housing those two are most common gaskets that leak

[acediac]

Originally Posted by 007_e350

Thats the oil in intake we all suffer from ... your CP has a ring inside and a metal clip ontop that clicks to hold it with TB, just make sure both those are there, also there's a bolt on the CP arm,

the Vs are diverter valves, all have oil - also if you opened up intake you'd see gunked up intake valves ... just the nature of design ... I'd look under valve cover / inside where spark plugs are or under oil filter housing those two are most common gaskets that leak

Thanks 007, I can see the metal clip on the outside of the charge pipe (but it's loose), will remove it and see what's on the inside. So the cable tie is NOT supposed to be there, correct? Why isn't there a hose clamp on the charge pipe, I would have thought it was important for it not to leak since it's under pressure from turbocharging!

The valve cover seems to be fine, although I need to get a better look at the part under the manifold. No leak at the oil filter housing or the spark plug area.

What about the pipe on the other side? It's not meant to be that shape, correct?

[bigdaddycane]

as stated oil in the intake track is normal for the N54, but an Oil Catch Can (BMS) and PCV valve from Rob Beck can help keep it to a minimum.

Many exhaust pipes on BMWs are crimped for fittment so I don't believe that crease on your downpipe is from an accident. The inlet tubes are also a sh!tty design and have crimps in them to get them to fit down to the tight spaces where the turbos are.

The next place you need to look for an oil leak is the front of the motor. Take off the inlet tubing and snorkel that run to the front of the air box so you can see better. If the front of your motor is covered in oil the likely culprit is the oil cannister housing and oil cooler line/thermostat housing. This is where the oil filter is housed. The two rubber gaskets for these housings leak over time and need to be replaced. They will leak down the front of the motor and it will travel in the path of least resistance which ends up down the turbos side of the motor, down the oil pan and into the underpanel tray.

As far as the zip ties, I am baffled as to why someone would do that. It seems as though that car was modded by someone who did not know what they were doing and tried to put it back together quickly to trade in. I would get the charge pipe connection sorted out and remove all the zip ties, replacing them with proper connections or fittings.

[acediac]

Originally Posted by bigdaddycane

as stated oil in the intake track is normal for the N54, but an Oil Catch Can (BMS) and PCV valve from Rob Beck can help keep it to a minimum.

Many exhaust pipes on BMWs are crimped for fittment so I don't believe that crease on your downpipe is from an accident. The inlet tubes are also a sh!tty design and have crimps in them to get them to fit down to the tight spaces where the turbos are.

The next place you need to look for an oil leak is the front of the motor. Take off the inlet tubing and snorkel that run to the front of the air box so you can see better. If the front of your motor is covered in oil the likely culprit is the oil cannister housing and oil cooler line/thermostat housing. This is where the oil filter is housed. The two rubber gaskets for these housings leak over time and need to be replaced. They will leak down the front of the motor and it will travel in the path of least resistance which ends up down the turbos side of the motor, down the oil pan and into the underpanel tray.

As far as the zip ties, I am baffled as to why someone would do that. It seems as though that car was modded by someone who did not know what they were doing and tried to put it back together quickly to trade in. I would get the charge pipe connection sorted out and remove all the zip ties, replacing them with proper connections or fittings.

Thanks bigdaddycane! You confirmed what I suspected. I thought it makes no sense for the charge pipe to be so loosely connected to the throttle body/manifold... it's a turbo!! This car was sold as a "premium selection" car from a BMW dealer... Can't believe they "fix" crucial things like that with cable ties!!

Thanks for the heads up on the crimped pipes... I guess I can't make the dealer responsible for that, but it's sure something I will look at if I want more power!

I will check the oil filter gaskets, but the front of the motor and the exhaust side are clean, the only place oily is under the throttle body/charge pipe connection. The more I think about it, the more I'm certain that it's the loose joint that's the cause of the oil leak when under turbo pressure. I had no idea the PCVs let so much oil through, looks like a catch can is a must! I don't understand how changing a PCV valve will make a difference though? Isn't it just a simple one way valve, dependent on how much oil comes through to the top of the engine?

[wahooooman]

Originally Posted by bigdaddycane

as stated oil in the intake track is normal for the N54, but an Oil Catch Can (BMS) and PCV valve from Rob Beck can help keep it to a minimum.

Many exhaust pipes on BMWs are crimped for fittment so I don't believe that crease on your downpipe is from an accident. The inlet tubes are also a sh!tty design and have crimps in them to get them to fit down to the tight spaces where the turbos are.

The next place you need to look for an oil leak is the front of the motor. Take off the inlet tubing and snorkel that run to the front of the air box so you can see better. If the front of your motor is covered in oil the likely culprit is the oil cannister housing and oil cooler line/thermostat housing. This is where the oil filter is housed. The two rubber gaskets for these housings leak over time and need to be replaced. They will leak down the front of the motor and it will travel in the path of least resistance which ends up down the turbos side of the motor, down the oil pan and into the underpanel tray.

As far as the zip ties, I am baffled as to why someone would do that. It seems as though that car was modded by someone who did not know what they were doing and tried to put it back together quickly to trade in. I would get the charge pipe connection sorted out and remove all the zip ties, replacing them with proper connections or fittings.

+10000 this is your answer it almost looks like the Zip tie is suppose to keep the charge pipe in place. Even if you get a Straight on fit with the zip tie, i feel as it would not hold it in place and thus spray oil everywere. I used to keep zip ties in my car incase my chargepipe came off as i was running a tune and pushing 18psi through it regularly, just to limp home.

Also My oil filter housing gasket went and trickled oil down the front of my engine and caused a puddle of oil in the under tray.


gooluck

[secretsquirrel]

Why are you doing all of this investigative work if you just bought the car 2 weeks ago from a dealer? I'd take that baby back and make them get under the car. Point them to the fact that the CP is being held on with a zip tie and put them under the gun to replace it and get things right.

[bigdaddycane]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Why are you doing all of this investigative work if you just bought the car 2 weeks ago from a dealer? I'd take that baby back and make them get under the car. Point them to the fact that the CP is being held on with a zip tie and put them under the gun to replace it and get things right.

This^

I was going to type something similar....take that car back and raise hell. Tell them you will contact BMW NA if something is not done. I bet they (the dealer) get on it.

[acediac]

Originally Posted by wahooooman

+10000 this is your answer it almost looks like the Zip tie is suppose to keep the charge pipe in place. Even if you get a Straight on fit with the zip tie, i feel as it would not hold it in place and thus spray oil everywere. I used to keep zip ties in my car incase my chargepipe came off as i was running a tune and pushing 18psi through it regularly, just to limp home.

Also My oil filter housing gasket went and trickled oil down the front of my engine and caused a puddle of oil in the under tray.


gooluck

Thanks wahooooman,

I wonder how the charge pipe is supposed to fit tightly onto the throttle body from the factory - all I see is a thin metal spring clip, I would have expected a hose clamp at the very least!

I had a look again, the engine seems clean in the front and exhaust side, the only part oily is below the throttle body.

Yes, secretsquirrel, I know I should raise hell with the dealer, but I want to make sure they fix the right thing! If zip ties are how they fixed it in the first place, I would not be surprised for them to do another short term band aid fix to eliminate the symptom, and then I'll be up the creek once warranty runs out.

It's hard to thoroughly do a pre-purchase inspection on a car that I haven't had time to learn - I've only ever had Jap cars before, this is my first BMW... That's why I paid extra money for what I *thought* was a mint condition car!!

Thanks for the input guys, it's great to be able to get no-bs info from people in the know. Much appreciated!

[wahooooman]

Originally Posted by acediac

Thanks wahooooman,

I wonder how the charge pipe is supposed to fit tightly onto the throttle body from the factory - all I see is a thin metal spring clip, I would have expected a hose clamp at the very least!

I had a look again, the engine seems clean in the front and exhaust side, the only part oily is below the throttle body.

Yes, secretsquirrel, I know I should raise hell with the dealer, but I want to make sure they fix the right thing! If zip ties are how they fixed it in the first place, I would not be surprised for them to do another short term band aid fix to eliminate the symptom, and then I'll be up the creek once warranty runs out.

It's hard to thoroughly do a pre-purchase inspection on a car that I haven't had time to learn - I've only ever had Jap cars before, this is my first BMW... That's why I paid extra money for what I *thought* was a mint condition car!!

Thanks for the input guys, it's great to be able to get no-bs info from people in the know. Much appreciated!

Yes the charge pipe should fit pretty snug, i could wiggle mine a bit. That snap ring clip is the only thing that holds it on but if you were to take the charge pipe off there is a rubber O-ring that is suppose to seal it.

Also on those indents in the exhaust, i Have a complete exhaust system from cats down. Ill take a look when i get home and see if those are there, i want to say they are. I was surprised how many bents and indents there were in this system. your car is Not an XI correct ?

I would certainly Raise hell, and expect the place you purchased this car from to replace the issues, or you should contact the BBB

[acediac]

Originally Posted by wahooooman

Yes the charge pipe should fit pretty snug, i could wiggle mine a bit. That snap ring clip is the only thing that holds it on but if you were to take the charge pipe off there is a rubber O-ring that is suppose to seal it.

Also on those indents in the exhaust, i Have a complete exhaust system from cats down. Ill take a look when i get home and see if those are there, i want to say they are. I was surprised how many bents and indents there were in this system. your car is Not an XI correct ?

Not an XI, correct.

I'm surprised your charge pipe can be wiggled, I would assume it needs to be airtight and be able to withstand the 15psi+ of turbocharging.

I think I know what happened to my car. The chargepipe had been broken, I can see how the mounting bracket has been plastic welded back onto the chargepipe. (see to the right of the alternator of the first picture, between V2 and V3). That's why they put a zip tie there, because the mounting bracket is no longer strong. The joint where it mates with the throttle body was probably damaged too, hence the seal is no good and oil is seeping out under pressure. Man, the scumbags will do anything to save a buck. If this was a normally aspirated car they would probably get away with it...

Unfortunately I'm in Australia, not North America, and we don't have powerful consumer laws. However I'm pretty sure I will get some sort of resolution for this. The zip tie pretty much makes it cut and dried, IMO.

It seems that crimped pipe on the exhaust side is the charged air induction tract from the rear turbo. (#1 in http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...85&hg=13&fg=20)
I would be interested to know if yours is crimped like that too. Bear in mind that your steering column is probably not there if you are in North America, cause I have a right hand drive car.

EDIT:
Took it to the dealer with a letter detailing the problem, and they installed a new chargepipe with no questions asked, gave me a loan car for the duration, and gave me back the car fully detailed. Very pleased with the service!