AP 9660 bbk PFC pads

[gmx]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Here's some pics of my DS3.12 pad. Doesn't look like NRS to me.

It looks like copper, did you run them down further or replace? I have DSUno with 18.8mm thick pad, 8mm material left and it's already appearing. If that's "worn" at 63%, value is crap.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by gmx

It looks like copper, did you run them down further or replace? I have DSUno with 18.8mm thick pad, 8mm material left and it's already appearing. If that's "worn" at 63%, value is crap.

I'm still running them. No issues with cracking/delaminating.

[gmx]

I called Ferodo distributor and while they were surprised it was rivetted, it should be fine as it's a softer material than the rotor or friction compound. Usually it's a brass-like material. Apparently most Pagid pads are also rivetted. Good to know. Although, I might have to replace mine anyway due to glazing.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by gmx

I called Ferodo distributor and while they were surprised it was rivetted, it should be fine as it's a softer material than the rotor or friction compound. Usually it's a brass-like material. Apparently most Pagid pads are also rivetted. Good to know. Although, I might have to replace mine anyway due to glazing.

OEM pads of CCB:

[ZM2]

Reviving an old thread. Any feedback on 333 vs 01?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Reviving an old thread. Any feedback on 333 vs 01?

333 is designed to be a front-only pad with a higher CoF at lower temps than 01 but is digressive so at high temps its CoF is similar to 01. 01 has better heat resistance, modulation and hot bite. 333 has superior cold bite and is designed to work well with oem ABS systems. 333 should be paired 331 on the rear. Wear rates should be similar. 333 isn’t widely available for different calipers and I think 331 has even fewer applications. I haven’t used them but I know people who have used 333-331 and they all say they are great pads.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

333 is designed to be a front-only pad with a higher CoF at lower temps than 01 but is digressive so at high temps its CoF is similar to 01. 01 has better heat resistance, modulation and hot bite. 333 has superior cold bite and is designed to work well with oem ABS systems. 333 should be paired 331 on the rear. Wear rates should be similar. 333 isn’t widely available for different calipers and I think 331 has even fewer applications. I haven’t used them but I know people who have used 333-331 and they all say they are great pads.

The characteristics you mentioned are the reason I haven’t tried the 333. Doesn’t sound like a lot of advantages versus 01.

11 used to be my fav, but I’ve gotten to where I don’t like the ever increasing bite at the end of the braking zone when they get hot, so going to try 01 F&R even tho they’re “old” tech.

I tried the 39s up front, had a little too much bite for my preference. And I don’t really care for 08s.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by ZM2

The characteristics you mentioned are the reason I haven’t tried the 333. Doesn’t sound like a lot of advantages versus 01.

11 used to be my fav, but I’ve gotten to where I don’t like the ever increasing bite at the end of the braking zone when they get hot, so going to try 01 F&R even tho they’re “old” tech.

I tried the 39s up front, had a little too much bite for my preference. And I don’t really care for 08s.

I find the 11 to be digressive, not progressive. Interesting.

I’d recommend trying 13 or 39. 13 is fairly flat and has the highest CoF over the widest temp range whereas 39 starts off progressively, hits the highest CoF of any PFC compound, and the drops off digressively at higher temps. I’ve used combinations of 11, 13 and 39 at different tracks and tires. There’s also new 82 and 83 which are endurance compounds.

[Driver407]

Never really followed up on the 333 pads. I didnt dislike the 333 but I probably wouldnt go for them again.
For whatever reason I went through them fairly fast compared to a 08/11 set. They went about the same wear as a set of ferodo 1.11 I tried. Want to say it was 4 days. Still a couple mm on them but I have in my emergency stash.

They did perform without a hiccup. I was just chasing lower wear rates when i tried 333.
08/11 are more plentiful, last a bit longer, roughly felt the same, and dont require special ordering. They do make a little more noise tho.

[spxxx]

I'd look into Cobalt Friction XR1 or XR2 pads

[FrankMstein]

333 is the "nascar" compound and not really a road course compound. I would used them in the rear.

[Driver407]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

333 is the "nascar" compound and not really a road course compound. I would used them in the rear.

Not according to pfcs information and bimmerworld when i spoke with them.
Applications: GT3, GT4 front, TCR, Rally Tarmac, Rallycross

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

333 is the "nascar" compound and not really a road course compound. I would used them in the rear.

BimmerWorld highly recommends 333/331 for track use and they used them in their f82 GT4s. Not sure about g82 GT4s & GT3s.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by spxxx

I'd look into Cobalt Friction XR1 or XR2 pads

Cobalt XR1 is very similar to my favorite, but discontinued, PFC 05 compound.

[FrankMstein]

Sorry guys, I confused 332, my bad.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I find the 11 to be digressive, not progressive. Interesting.

I’d recommend trying 13 or 39. 13 is fairly flat and has the highest CoF over the widest temp range whereas 39 starts off progressively, hits the highest CoF of any PFC compound, and the drops off digressively at higher temps. I’ve used combinations of 11, 13 and 39 at different tracks and tires. There’s also new 82 and 83 which are endurance compounds.

Checking PFC’s stock that fits the AP 9660 caliper only 11, 39, 01, 05, and 333 is in stock.

11s are definitely progressive and bite up more as they get hot at the end of long braking zone: https://pfcbrakes.com/pfc-brake-pad-compounds/ They used to be a fav of mine for the bite, but as I’m working on finite braking techniques I find the extra hot bite harder to be smooth with.

My issue with 39 is I can’t find a comparable rear pad with close to as much bite. For the 275/295 staggered setup on my M2, and running my coilovers stiff up front and slightly softer in the rear, I can have quite a bit of rear pad bite without worrying about locking the rears. Front 39s and rear 01s was too much bite bias to the front.

I’d never heard of the 05, and haven’t seen any torque curve data on them. Have you all?

That leaves me with my original question of 01 vs 333, and I might just have to try a 333 set to see how it works with my particular setup. It’s bite being close to the 39 worries me a bit, but it is digressive, so may it’d work better with my staggered setup. Altho, it is the fastest wearing pad compound that PFC makes.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Checking PFC’s stock that fits the AP 9660 caliper only 11, 39, 01, 05, and 333 is in stock.

They have 05 in stock? 05 is similar the 13 which replaced it that’s why I’m surprised they have 05 in stock. 13 is initially a progressive bite but after it hits its peak, it transitions to a digressive pad which is what the 05 did/does. However, its peak is lower than 13. 07 is much closer to 13 but isn’t made anymore (well, maybe it is because I thought 05 was discontinued). The Cobalt XR1 basically takes the best aspects of 03 and 07. I’m a fan of XR1 and XR2 (ran XR2 F and XR1 R as well as XR1 F & R on my e46 M3 with AP Racing calipers).

11s are definitely progressive and bite up more as they get hot at the end of long braking zone: https://pfcbrakes.com/pfc-brake-pad-compounds/ They used to be a fav of mine for the bite, but as I’m working on finite braking techniques I find the extra hot bite harder to be smooth with.

11 is one of my current favorites. The 05 has more initial torque than the 11 but as you get deeper in the braking zone it requires more pedal effort and it’s hard to get ABS to engage whereas 11 requires less pedal effort during the final phase of braking but you know the 11 will be there to decelerate the car! I agree the 11 is harder to be smooth with its sharp progressive nature late in the braking zone.

My issue with 39 is I can’t find a comparable rear pad with close to as much bite. For the 275/295 staggered setup on my M2, and running my coilovers stiff up front and slightly softer in the rear, I can have quite a bit of rear pad bite without worrying about locking the rears. Front 39s and rear 01s was too much bite bias to the front.

I was able to find 7767 pads in 39 compound which can have its IR increased to match the 7768 rear pad. 39 with 07/05 is a good combination.

I’d never heard of the 05, and haven’t seen any torque curve data on them. Have you all?

Like I said above, 05 and 07 are similar to 13 with the difference being 13 has higher CoF than the 07 and 07 has slightly higher bite than 05 but 05 has more bite than 01 across the entire temp range. 05, 07 and 13 are progressive-digressive which allows for more modulation and smoother release than 11. I’d say look at the 13 temp curve but shift its peak down to 15 peak at the middle of the temp range - so 13 profile with its peak torque around 15 mid range.

That leaves me with my original question of 01 vs 333, and I might just have to try a 333 set to see how it works with my particular setup. It’s bite being close to the 39 worries me a bit, but it is digressive, so may it’d work better with my staggered setup. Altho, it is the fastest wearing pad compound that PFC makes.

I’ve personally haven’t used the 333 but I hear good things from people who have used them. Based on its CoF temp curve, it has the initial bite of an 07 and at mid to high temps it’s similar to 05.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by gmx

It looks like copper, did you run them down further or replace? I have DSUno with 18.8mm thick pad, 8mm material left and it's already appearing. If that's "worn" at 63%, value is crap.

Yes. Ferodo uses copper pins, not rivets, that are attached to the upper surface of the backing plate and are softer than the pad compound so they wear away with zero effect on pad performance. Pads with rivets, you find the rivets flange on the backside of the backing plate. Carbotech still rivets pad material to the backing plate in addition to bonding the compound to the backing plate.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I’ve personally haven’t used the 333 but I hear good things from people who have used them. Based on its CoF temp curve, it has the initial bite of an 07 and at mid to high temps it’s similar to 05.

Where did you get the 7767 39?

I’ve contemplated running an 11 in the back bc I’m not worried about locking rears vs fronts with my staggered setup, and the rears don’t get super hot so the 11 bite shouldn’t ramp up dramatically.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Where did you get the 7767 39?

I’ve contemplated running an 11 in the back bc I’m not worried about locking rears vs fronts with my staggered setup, and the rears don’t get super hot so the 11 bite shouldn’t ramp up dramatically.

I’ll have to go back and look. The 7767 is used by Radicals so you can find some extra compounds at times. The 7768 is used in the AP CP9449/CP9451 calipers. I believe I found this from a company in the UK. It’s surprising what you can find in stock in the EU and UK. Shipping was reasonable too. When I find a pad combo I like, I’ll stock up on them. I had a four year supply of 05 after they originally discontinued it but it’s back.

If I run 39 on the rear, the rear gets a good workout and the bias shifts ~8-9% to the rear and I still get no lockup.