Autocar: Britain's Best Driver's Car 2011 - Randy Pobst may be right after all!

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

You're such an amateur troller. Calling people who buy BMW M3's or 1M's "fanboys" on a BMW forum is gonna get your thread shut down faster. You have to be more subtle.

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[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Again, the 1M is a drift car... that's what it was made for.

Drift car? No... Adjustable.
Oversteer on demand isn't a bad thing. The ability to overwhelm the rear grip and adjust the cornering attitude at will is a critical tool at places like the autocross. While not being able to do that will inspire more "confidence" every time, it will ultimately also be slower (and less fun).

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

it's about the sole underlying factor used by Autocar in determining what is an excelent drive's car - CONFIDENCE!

You're reading too much into this. You could probably peddle a tricycle around the track with complete confidence. Which doesn't mean you'd enjoy it.

[LeifW]

Originally Posted by b33g33

+1


Leif W.

[Fundahl]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

The ability to overwhelm the rear grip and adjust the cornering attitude at will is a critical tool at places like the autocross.

So true.

Nowhere is under-steer more apparent than at autoX.

In FWD and even some AWD and RWD cars some of the tight turns you just feel hopeless. Just have to find the max angle that still has good grip and plow it out!

Power-oversteer and a neutral car to start with make things SOOOOOO much more enjoyable!

[BimmerMat135]

Fine results but let talk about the money. For many person it's represent 80% and more of the purschase decision so WHY the 1M has never be compared with car of it's price(RS3 Cayman 2.9 Evora N/A) now I would like to see the results...

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Oversteer on demand isn't a bad thing.

I never said it was a bad thing... that's the way I like it. That's precisely why I say the 1M is a drift car not a track car.

Please

[Fundahl]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I never said it was a bad thing... that's the way I like it. That's precisely why I say the 1M is a drift car not a track car.

Please

Technically, the only true "track cars" would be Formula cars and spec racers. The M3 is NOT a track car, nor is anything else offered to the general public.

The closest thing to being a track car is the Radical series and that weird little enclosed formula looking thing.

Even the ACR-X Viper, it's a street car trying to emulate a purpose built vehicle. To each their own.

[Aussie_in_London]

I have never really taken much notice to either auto express or autocar when it comes to comparison tests (cheap weekly mag with cheap write ups and opinions lol), but if I did happen to take and notice then Steve Sutcliffe is the only one of the journalists in that group I would take any note of what he has to say, no doubt he set the lap times for all........

Opinions are like ar*eholes, everyone has one

[simple_simon]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Fine results but let talk about the money. For many person it's represent 80% and more of the purschase decision so WHY the 1M has never be compared with car of it's price(RS3 Cayman 2.9 Evora N/A) now I would like to see the results...

Like the Megane that costs a lot less and still beat the 1M?

[Schnorbitz]

Originally Posted by Aussie_in_London

I have never really taken much notice to either auto express or autocar when it comes to comparison tests (cheap weekly mag with cheap write ups and opinions lol)

Auto Express yes; it's a comic. Autocar no.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by simple_simon

Like the Megane that costs a lot less and still beat the 1M?

The megan is still slower than the 1M on the track and the 1M almost matches the XKR-S times. I will agree with you that the Megan is a bargin but anyway most of this forum's members dont have a Renault dealer nearby.

[Aussie_in_London]

Originally Posted by Schnorbitz

Auto Express yes; it's a comic. Autocar no.

Everyone has an opinion and mine is just that re autocar, yes not down to auto express (automotive News of the World) dribble but still a 'cheaper' weekly rag when it comes to features 'in my opinion'........ Only decent thing about it is Steve Sutcliffe!

[Schnorbitz]

Originally Posted by Aussie_in_London

Everyone has an opinion and mine is just that re autocar, yes not down to auto express (automotive News of the World) dribble but still a 'cheaper' weekly rag when it comes to features 'in my opinion'........ Only decent thing about it is Steve Sutcliffe!

Fair enough mate, I think it and Evo are the only decent mags on sale in the UK.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by Schnorbitz

Fair enough mate, I think it and Evo are the only decent mags on sale in the UK.

At least you have Evo.

over here we got bupkiss ... unless you have a boner for toolboxes like Pobst.

[MrRoboto]

I don't get this test. The 'Best Drivers Car' to me is one that is at home on the track and the street. How can you live with something like at GT3, Caterham, etc. for anything other then track or weekend use?

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

I don't get this test. The 'Best Drivers Car' to me is one that is at home on the track and the street. How can you live with something like at GT3, Caterham, etc. for anything other then track or weekend use?

Well said. Even the most committed track rat will spend a fraction of his driving time/miles driven actually on the track.

Thanks for stating what should be obvious to all of us but yet we totally missed it.

Title should read, "Best Track Car", there fixed!

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Aussie_in_London

........ Only decent thing about it is Steve Sutcliffe!

The question is that you read him raving about the 1M on the road against the Cayman R and then as soon as the 1M hits the track the best he can do is to give it 7th place overall... doesn't it make you wonder?!

The conclusion is obvious the 1M isn't a track car and he even explains why... just read it:

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Fundahl

Technically, the only true "track cars" would be Formula cars and spec racers. The M3 is NOT a track car, nor is anything else offered to the general public.

Except the E30 M3 which was made available to the general public directly from the spec racers.

The E90/92 M3 is the best track car that BMW has to offer to the general public presently.

[Franklin Joseph]

seriously...what is wrong with you??? just go away...no one cares.
Many folks are already getting their cars now and are driving it...we dont care about reports etc anymore, and esp what you have to say about cars. If we want a M3, we would have gotten one. U dont see any owner complaining about how the car handles or performs...get over it...geez.

[1560]

Originally Posted by b33g33

Oh noes!!!!!!!!

My $45k car is being beaten by $70k+ cars on a track while being driven by guys who are scared to turn the nannies off!

well said

[BMW Gator]

Originally Posted by Franklin Joseph

seriously...what is wrong with you??? just go away...no one cares.
Many folks are already getting their cars now and are driving it...we dont care about reports etc anymore, and esp what you have to say about cars. If we want a M3, we would have gotten one. U dont see any owner complaining about how the car handles or performs...get over it...geez.

+1

I bought this car for me, I know more about it than many posters and I really don't give a damn about anybody else's opinion or feel a need to defend it. Do your oun research and formulate your own opinion and buy what you want. Have a nice day.

[GoingTooFast]

Unfortunately, that is not the case here... Let me recenter the debate on the question we started from by using Steve Sutcliffe's own words:

But how good is it compared with the very best cars that money can buy at this level? Good enough to deal with a Porsche Cayman R, which costs £12k more and is probably the sweetest-handling sports car that we've driven this year?

I think the 8th place overall (behind even the cheaper Megane) in the Autocar Britain's Best Driver's Car 2011 competition won by the Cayman R pretty much answers to that.

And this proves that when in the track trying to do a clean lap the 1M isn't in its best element. Which leads us to the question of turning the nannies off or not.

But first let us define the 1M character, again using Steve Sutcliffe's own words that described it so well:

The bottom line, however, is that the 1M is an absolute scream to drive, featuring a delicious surfeit of power over grip that, in the wet at least, requires real skill to keep in check. In a good way.

It also handles, steers and rides in a style that will not appeal to all tastes - with a whiff of the wild side to its nature. Yet for those at whom it is aimed, the 1M will provide a rare and cherished balance between comfort and control, excitement and usability, thrills and spills - assuming, that is, you like watching the world go by out of the side window every once in a while. It's a proper, hardcore driver's car, in other words (...).

Inevitably, the way the 1M goes about tackling that same piece of road couldn't be more opposite to the Cayman. (...) Far more important than that, even, is the fun factor the 1M serves up while doing so - because be in no doubt, BMW has built a car that is downright hilarious to drive. On any road, and in any conditions. Turn the traction control off when it's wet and, as long as you know what you're doing, you might have even more fun (sort of) driving this car than you would the Cayman.

Obviously the fun factor wasn't the key element for judging the Britain's Best Driver's Car 2011 in Autocar. And that is what the 1M is all about - FUN!

When you guys start to mod the 1M to tame its wild character in order to be faster in the track - this is clearly why the Autocar journalists were playing with the DSC on and off in the 1M and eventually setting in its MDM mode (let alone the M button) - you are changing towards the M3 character and sending a clear message to the M division saying that they have put the wrong car together. Thus, the only difference to the M3, and a very important one for sure, would be the 1M's weight advantage.

I don't think the 1M has anything wrong about it. I like it not for what it could have been or for what it could be, I like it just for what it is - which is not a track car but a pure drift/fun car!

So, the following is the kind of hype I cannot stand up anymore and that is absolutely misleading even more so because it is written by the same Steve Sutcliffe that gives the 1M ONLY a 7th place overall in the the Autocar Britain's Best Driver's Car 2011 competition:

Put a ceiling on your production numbers and you remove the need to make a car that's appealing to (read compromised for) the wider market. It means you can create a car that pushes the boundaries far harder in terms of its dynamic edge. You could even argue that this has enabled BMW to build the car it has been longing to build since the original E30 M3 was replaced by the more broadly appealing but less 'focused' E36 M3 of 1994.

Which is some wait. But now it's over - and now that it is, the excuses go right out of the window. So if the 1M doesn't deliver, one could rightly accuse the M division of losing its way.

Thus, with a 8th place overall in Autocar's own competition for the Britain's Best Driver's Car 2011 I must ask to Steve Sutcliffe and everyone else who is modding his 1M to gain that confidence:

Is the M division losing its way?


Randy Pobst says yes... and now I understand why. He just wants a track car, he doesn't want a fun car!

And you?