M3 v M4 VBOX Comparison

[rick berry]

Thanks for the info. I had a big block Trans Am I built years ago that ran similar times to your V-box results. Traction limited early then strong on top end. My M4 feels similar. If not careful, very traction limited. When it does hook up, it pulls very strong. Can't wait for cooler weather in Texas to allow for more HP. My car feels MUCH faster than my E92 above 40 mph when accelerating.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3

This is getting crazy lol. All I know is I tested my stock m4 with my vbox sport and that's the data

And no one has said anything else either. We just point out that your particular results are higher than anything we've seen before...

What's the problem with stating the obvious facts that your trap speeds are higher than previous trap speeds

[solstice]

The trap speed is pretty much neck in neck with Autobild's 120.9 mph. Deduct 1 mph for Vbox vs strip timing and you have 121.3 vs 120.9. That's a 0.4 mph difference. Hardly extreme.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

Lol, I know right. Please don't feel the need to go to the track. People here are unreasonable. You used a well documented accurate method and went beyond what most drag strip run provides by doing runs in both directions to eliminate impact of slope and wind. Your method and numbers are good, likely better than most, you seem to know what you are doing when launching and brought another dynod car to compare. Anyone asking for more is looking/wanting to disprove, ignore them since they will never be satisfied with anything than the numbers they WANT to see instead of the actual ones.

Is it unreasonable to point out that his trap speeds are higher than anything we've seen before? No one (AFAIK) has said that he has been cheating or lying etc, just asking for more details about his run and discussing why his results are so different from every trap speed we have seen previously...

I pointed out two other "well documented accurate method" results from two other Vbox runners, just as a reference. One of those links was also the same results used by P1 Motorcars for their simulation.

I don't get your criticism towards anyone trying to understand different test results, especially when we have such a variation between the last trap speed and previous recorded trap speeds.

I wrote a few posts ago that it would be amazing if we start seeing 120-123MPH trap speeds for the F8x DCT. I didn't write "strange", "odd", "suspicious" etc, I said it would be amazing! As in a great thing!

But so far, we have several F8x that trap around 114-119. One at 120,9 and now the OP at 122,3.

I am genuinely curious as to why we see this variation, what could explain it and which will be proven to be the average "real" trap speed when we start seeing these cars on the drag strip. If you don't find anything interesting about a trap speed that differs by 3-4MPH from the other two Vbox runs we have and by 3-6MPH from tested times from magazines, then that's fine. But when others want to find out more about the causes for these variations, that doesn't mean they all have a hidden agenda like you seem to think...

[MRSSIIM3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Is it unreasonable to point out that his trap speeds are higher than anything we've seen before? No one (AFAIK) has said that he has been cheating or lying etc, just asking for more details about his run and discussing why his results are so different from every trap speed we have seen previously...

I pointed out two other "well documented accurate method" results from two other Vbox runners, just as a reference. One of those links was also the same results used by P1 Motorcars for their simulation.

I don't get your criticism towards anyone trying to understand different test results, especially when we have such a variation between the last trap speed and previous recorded trap speeds.

I wrote a few posts ago that it would be amazing if we start seeing 120-123MPH trap speeds for the F8x DCT. I didn't write "strange", "odd", "suspicious" etc, I said it would be amazing! As in a great thing!

But so far, we have several F8x that trap around 114-119. One at 120,9 and now the OP at 122,3.

I am genuinely curious as to why we see this variation, what could explain it and which will be proven to be the average "real" trap speed when we start seeing these cars on the drag strip. If you don't find anything interesting about a trap speed that differs by 3-4MPH from the other two Vbox runs we have and by 3-6MPH from tested times from magazines, then that's fine. But when others want to find out more about the causes for these variations, that doesn't mean they all have a hidden agenda like you seem to think...

I don't think anyone has a hidden agenda! The dynamics of the forum are just amusing

One of my highest trapping ones was 123.x but the 1/4 mile was slower because my launch was really bad.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Is it unreasonable to point out that his trap speeds are higher than anything we've seen before? No one (AFAIK) has said that he has been cheating or lying etc, just asking for more details about his run and discussing why his results are so different from every trap speed we have seen previously...

I pointed out two other "well documented accurate method" results from two other Vbox runners, just as a reference. One of those links was also the same results used by P1 Motorcars for their simulation.

I don't get your criticism towards anyone trying to understand different test results, especially when we have such a variation between the last trap speed and previous recorded trap speeds.

I wrote a few posts ago that it would be amazing if we start seeing 120-123MPH trap speeds for the F8x DCT. I didn't write "strange", "odd", "suspicious" etc, I said it would be amazing! As in a great thing!

But so far, we have several F8x that trap around 114-119. One at 120,9 and now the OP at 122,3.

I am genuinely curious as to why we see this variation, what could explain it and which will be proven to be the average "real" trap speed when we start seeing these cars on the drag strip. If you don't find anything interesting about a trap speed that differs by 3-4MPH from the other two Vbox runs we have and by 3-6MPH from tested times from magazines, then that's fine. But when others want to find out more about the causes for these variations, that doesn't mean they all have a hidden agenda like you seem to think...

[solstice]

Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3

I don't think anyone has a hidden agenda! The dynamics of the forum are just amusing

One of my highest trapping ones was 123.x but the 1/4 mile was slower because my launch was really bad.

Looking forward to a 3.9s 0-60 LC launch with 11.59s @ 124 mph 1/4...

[MRSSIIM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

Looking forward to a 3.9s 0-60 LC launch with 11.59s @ 124 mph 1/4...

let me get LC activated first...

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

The trap speed is pretty much neck in neck with Autobild's 120.9 mph. Deduct 1 mph for Vbox vs strip timing and you have 121.3 vs 120.9. That's a 0.4 mph difference. Hardly extreme.

I suspect you mean Autocar (UK)?

They did 120,9MPH at the MIRA mile straight, which AFAIK doesn't have a 1/4 mile timing equipment. Autocar also use Vbox for their testing:

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/index.php.../our-customers

My strong belief is that Autocar also used their Vbox for their testing.

[Maddict3]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

^This

here we go

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3

I don't think anyone has a hidden agenda! The dynamics of the forum are just amusing

One of my highest trapping ones was 123.x but the 1/4 mile was slower because my launch was really bad.

123,x is REALLY amazing!!! You sure your car is stock or not a pre production competition pack...

[Maddict3]

Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3

to those doubting the data:

you guys can choose to believe it or not believe it. don't really care. its data straight off my vbox which refreshes 20 hz / second via GPS so if anything its more accurate than even the actual bmw speedometer. i only posted it because of the several threads asking for vbox data. i wasnt even going to post the screenshots of my vbox app but i realized there would be no way anyone believed me without them, so i posted those...but to say its not the same as time slips...read up on what at vbox does first lol

http://www.vboxmotorsport.com/index....ers/vbox-sport

was around 40-60 feet above sea level with 50-70% humidity

very well said, enjoy your M!

[MRSSIIM3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

123,x is REALLY amazing!!! You sure your car is stock or not a pre production competition pack...

Hahaha I hope there's no comp pack for a while! But ya its for sure stock haven't touched it yet. Eventually will put a jb4 on but as we've seen thus far it's enough power for a few thousand miles

I feel bad my M3 isn't getting any love anymore I don't want to drive it. Will probably sell it now or strip it and make it a track only car

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Boss330

123,x is REALLY amazing!!! You sure your car is stock or not a pre production competition pack...

With the new C63 TT V8 being rumored to be available with power ranging from 480hp to 580hp the F8X better lay down these 120 mph runs...

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

With the new C63 TT V8 being rumored to be available with power ranging from 480hp to 580hp the F8X better lay down these 120 mph runs...

True

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Boss330

But so far, we have several F8x that trap around 114-119. One at 120,9 and now the OP at 122,3.

rolleyes:

No, we don't. We have one at 114.9 with a manual transmission in unknown conditions. I like how you theow out the 120+ run but don't state that the 114.9 is a similarly low outlier. Can't have it both ways. There was also a manual tested at 119.

You not understanding that you are biased ....

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

No, we don't. We have one at 114.9 with a manual transmission in unknown conditions. I like how you theow out the 120+ run but don't state that the 114.9 is a similarly low outlier. Can't have it both ways. There was also a manual tested at 119.

You not understanding that you are biased ....

Biased how?

I have posted all of the trap speeds (you are probably correct that the 114 was a 114,9MPH). Mentioned that most trap speeds are between 114 and 119 (should have said 114,9-119). Mentioned that we have previously seen only one trap speed above 120, at 120,9 (not once mentioned it was an outlier, just referenced it since it's a real result. But it now seems the 120,9MPH might be a Vbox result as well. Which means it migh actually be closer to a 119-120 averaged trap speed on a drag strip over the last 60'). And I have NOT thrown out the 120,9MPH. I have mentioned it in almost every post on this thread...

Most previous DCT trap speeds seem to be around 117-119MPH, with one at 120,9MPH (most likely Vbox as Autocar use that for testing and MIRA doesn't have a drag strip with timing equipment AFAIK), which is why I have said that the OP trap speed is between 3-6MPH higher than the general trap speeds we have seen previously...

Meaning that in this 3-6MPH variation I HAVE thrown out ALL of the 114-116MPH trap speeds... If I was biased, I surely would have said that the OP trap speed was 7-9MPH faster than the previous trap speeds (comparing his 122-123 with a 114-115MPH trap speed, instead of with the 117-119MPH trap speeds I used instead...)

So, where is the bias in posting all the previous trap speeds, including linking to two Vbox trap speeds at 117 and 119 respectively? And throwing out all of the previous 114,9-116MPH trap speeds when comparing the OP trap speed with previous trap speeds!




Here is the traps I have used:

General trap speeds previously: 114-119 (should have used 114,9)
Autocar trap speed: 120,9MPH
OP trap speed: 122,3MPH

When comparing the OP with previous trap speds I have used the following trap speeds:

OP: 122,3
Previous: 117-119 (throwing out all of the 114,9-116 results)

[Black Gold]

It's not that complex

One at 114.9. Two at 120+

You say the 120+ is an outlier and the range is 114-119.

So, why would you remove the 120, yet keep the bottom outlier (from one single data point) at 114? Specifically when the next slowest speed is 116, and that was with a manual when the car tested here was dct.

Edit : you also specifically stated that we had "several" cars tested at 114-119. In fact, we had one test each at 114.9 and 116. So no, we didn't have several.

[MRSSIIM3]

[MRSSIIM3]

One other thing. My sport gauges when I'm full throttle above 5500 are showing 480 hp. Shouldn't it only go up to 425 since that's what the car is rated as? Forget that we know it's underrated but this is a BMW feature and BMW rated it at 425

Edit: 480 is the top of the sport gauge HP and mine hits one notch below which is 450hp

[IMrMark]

Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3

oh come on, you knew this would happen

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

It's not that complex

One at 114.9. Two at 120+

You say the 120+ is an outlier and the range is 114-119.

So, why would you remove the 120, yet keep the bottom outlier (from one single data point) at 114? Specifically when the next slowest speed is 116, and that was with a manual when the car tested here was dct.

Edit : you also specifically stated that we had "several" cars tested at 114-119. In fact, we had one test each at 114.9 and 116. So no, we didn't have several.

I will repeat myself one more time...

Originally Posted by Boss330

Biased how?

I have posted all of the trap speeds (you are probably correct that the 114 was a 114,9MPH). Mentioned that most trap speeds are between 114 and 119 (should have said 114,9-119). Mentioned that we have previously seen only one trap speed above 120, at 120,9 (not once mentioned it was an outlier, just referenced it since it's a real result. But it now seems the 120,9MPH might be a Vbox result as well. Which means it migh actually be closer to a 119-120 averaged trap speed on a drag strip over the last 60'). And I have NOT thrown out the 120,9MPH. I have mentioned it in almost every post on this thread...

Most previous DCT trap speeds seem to be around 117-119MPH, with one at 120,9MPH (most likely Vbox as Autocar use that for testing and MIRA doesn't have a drag strip with timing equipment AFAIK), which is why I have said that the OP trap speed is between 3-6MPH higher than the general trap speeds we have seen previously...

Meaning that in this 3-6MPH variation I HAVE thrown out ALL of the 114-116MPH trap speeds... If I was biased, I surely would have said that the OP trap speed was 7-9MPH faster than the previous trap speeds (comparing his 122-123 with a 114-115MPH trap speed, instead of with the 117-119MPH trap speeds I used instead...)

So, where is the bias in posting all the previous trap speeds, including linking to two Vbox trap speeds at 117 and 119 respectively? And throwing out all of the previous 114,9-116MPH trap speeds when comparing the OP trap speed with previous trap speeds!




Here is the traps I have used:

General trap speeds previously: 114-119 (should have used 114,9)
Autocar trap speed: 120,9MPH
OP trap speed: 122,3MPH

When comparing the OP with previous trap speds I have used the following trap speeds:

OP: 122,3
Previous: 117-119 (throwing out all of the 114,9-116 results)

I probably üsed the wrong phrasing when I wrote "we have had several cars in the 114-119MPH range". What I mean was that of the several cars we have seen tested so far, they have been in the 114,9 to 119MPH range. I also mentioned that these where for both DCT and MT. Doesn't really make any difference since I threw out the 114-116MPH results anyway...