Why buy an M3 in 2014-15?

[bsochs]

Pretend its not about the name brand(or any nationalistic views on a particular brand), why should I buy an M3 when so many other cars American,Japanese and German are posting faster (after copying the M swagger of course) lap times for the same money spent. With a couple Caddillacs now posting faster lap times and 0-60s, with Lexus having one of the best interiors(even though the media hasnt liked them) and great balance, with Audi depositing sports diffs that correct turn in......why purchase an M3? Is not the cadillac ATS better now. (again suspend any condescension from loft BMW to GM for a moment and just talk driving experience please.) Again, my question is pure driving enthusiast...throttle,turn the wheel, eyes on the road question...not so much about life long debates over brands..unless the argument is aobut durability, experience in the seat, or downtime because of repairs.

I dont have a sports sedan currently. I've nver owned one but researching this subject over the last 2years everything points at BMW as a benchmark for the class of car I'm seeking. A 2+2 sport car that can cross the country with the family and go to a track, be used as a daily driver as well.

I am thankful there is so much to choose from but in 2014, why by the M3?

[m3ray]

Because this m3post and we like M3s.

[bsochs]

Originally Posted by m3ray

Because this m3post and we like M3s.

Great. That was so awesome.
Now that we have that out of the way;

I want to know why any of you think the M3 is the car to purchase or why not if that is your view.

[Helmsman]

Haha, dude, you simply have to validate that yourself. Keep reading the internet, go and test drive, and Im sure you can provide an answer more relevant for you self than we M3 owners can. We clearly aready made up our mind, for us that is...

Good luck!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by bsochs

Great. That was so awesome.
Now that we have that out of the way;

I want to know why any of you think the M3 is the car to purchase or why not if that is your view.

If I was living in the US it was the 2015 Z06 and that for the same price as an F80/82 with some goodies on it !
Numbers of the ZO6 ? 650 HP ! " 0-60 in 2.95 sec. " and that are Veyron numbers =>http://www.hotrod.com/news/2015_corv...han_3_seconds/
Amen !

[IB M]

The M grabs me, it is the collective experience of all factors not just track time. There is no right answer overall; only what you like and what is best for you. What grabs you? For me this is an emotional purchase more than pure numbers. The performance numbers are all so close now who cares.

[backhill]

Originally Posted by bsochs

Unless the argument is aobut durability.

That statement alone should make you shy away from GM/Ford/Chrysler. The interiors are a far cry from what German and Japanese automakers are shelling out in terms of quality, and the overall engineering and build quality is not on par with the competition. Ask me how I know.

Are you looking solely at quarter mile times when you're referring to these numbers (not referenced)? If so, go buy a Hellcat or a 2013+ MY GT500 and call it a day.

[gatorfast]

With the price of cars and gas perpetually rising why buy any car at all? A $2 big mac has an entire days worth or calories so why but any more food than that? Why why why????

[Rupes]

It's not our job to sell you on the car. Any car salesman would be glad to take up that role for you.

[to///m]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

With the price of cars and gas perpetually rising why buy any car at all? A $2 big mac has an entire days worth or calories so why but any more food than that? Why why why????

[Alpha_M]

Because it has that "X factor" ...

[Petros]

I actually would NOT buy an M3 right now. When the E90 M3 came out in 2007 it was pretty competitive and fast by the standards of the time. But nowadays I don't think the F80 M3 is really all that special, and not like when the E90 came out. For the price of a new M3 nowadays I'd much rather have a C7 Vette Z51 or a used GTR.

[bradleyland]

First up, road holding is not the same as handling (take 10 minutes to watch that video; it's old but fantastic). It's entirely possible for a car to post an incredible lap time, but be zero fun to drive. The GT-R (/me ducks) is routinely lambasted for this in the automotive press. The GT-R punches way, way above its weight, but reviewers always complain that the handling is sterile. This is a case of a car with superlative road holding, but boring handling.

The M3 is a car of compromises. The typical M3 buyer wants a car that has sports car handling, grip (same as road holding), and performance, but retains some practicality. Yes, I said practicality. The rear seats in the M3 are very usable. Even in the M4, they're usable. Ingress/egress is a pain in the ass, but there's room back there.

In terms of performance and grip, the M3 nips at the heels of some very real sports cars; like the oft compared 911. The differentiator between the M3 and many of the cars you listed is that it handles better than most other gussied up passenger saloons (which is ultimately what the M3/4 is).

To answer some of your questions directly:

With a couple Caddillacs now posting faster lap times and 0-60s

Lap times are not everything. It's unlikely that you're going to put any serious track time in with your sports sedan, so lap times are a very limited metric. You will, however, feel the difference in handling on a day-to-day basis. The CTS-V posts incredible lap times, but it's a much bigger/heavier car than the M3 (almost 700 lbs heavier). In day-to-day driving, you'll notice the weight. The upcoming ATS-V might be a better competitor, but we'll have to wait and see. Historically, the M3 differentiates itself from the domestic offerings in chassis dynamics. I'm sure we'll see some head-to-heads.

with Lexus having one of the best interiors(even though the media hasnt liked them) and great balance

Go drive a Lexus. If you like the way it drives, and you're OK with the fact that a slushbox automatic is your only option, then by all means, buy a Lexus. I know slushbox is derogatory, but I mean that in the kindest sense possible. Lexus makes a very fine automobile, but it's virtues are very different from an M-car. Lexus focuses on quiet refinement, and routinely falls short of the M offerings in (once again) handling.

with Audi depositing sports diffs that correct turn in......why purchase an M3?

One could make the argument that if you need some electrical wizardry to correct shortcomings in your chassis dynamics, you haven't made a real sports car. Why not just start with a chassis that isn't so compromised? Just like the Lexus, you should go drive the Audi and see how it feels. If you prefer it to the BMW, then you should buy it. Audi also makes a great car.

Is not the cadillac ATS better now.

Better than what? Better than older Cadillac models? Unquestionably. Better than the 3-series? It's certainly very, very competitive. Some people prefer it. Better than an M3? Not if performance is what you're after. There is no ATS currently available that can challenge the M3 head-on. That may change in November. I'm excited to see.

I am thankful there is so much to choose from but in 2014, why by the M3?

The M3 still wins head-to-heads for a reason. If you're an automotive enthusiast who still needs some level of practicality in their automobile, the M3 is very, very difficult to beat. You're getting a car that chases the 911 closely in performance and handling, but has four usable seats.

[Alpha_M]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

First up, road holding is not the same as handling (take 10 minutes to watch that video; it's old but fantastic). It's entirely possible for a car to post an incredible lap time, but be zero fun to drive. The GT-R (/me ducks) is routinely lambasted for this in the automotive press. The GT-R punches way, way above its weight, but reviewers always complain that the handling is sterile. This is a case of a car with superlative road holding, but boring handling.

The M3 is a car of compromises. The typical M3 buyer wants a car that has sports car handling, grip (same as road holding), and performance, but retains some practicality. Yes, I said practicality. The rear seats in the M3 are very usable. Even in the M4, they're usable. Ingress/egress is a pain in the ass, but there's room back there.

In terms of performance and grip, the M3 nips at the heels of some very real sports cars; like the oft compared 911. The differentiator between the M3 and many of the cars you listed is that it handles better than most other gussied up passenger saloons (which is ultimately what the M3/4 is).

To answer some of your questions directly:

With a couple Caddillacs now posting faster lap times and 0-60s

Lap times are not everything. It's unlikely that you're going to put any serious track time in with your sports sedan, so lap times are a very limited metric. You will, however, feel the difference in handling on a day-to-day basis. The CTS-V posts incredible lap times, but it's a much bigger/heavier car than the M3 (almost 700 lbs heavier). In day-to-day driving, you'll notice the weight. The upcoming ATS-V might be a better competitor, but we'll have to wait and see. Historically, the M3 differentiates itself from the domestic offerings in chassis dynamics. I'm sure we'll see some head-to-heads.

with Lexus having one of the best interiors(even though the media hasnt liked them) and great balance

Go drive a Lexus. If you like the way it drives, and you're OK with the fact that a slushbox automatic is your only option, then by all means, buy a Lexus. I know slushbox is derogatory, but I mean that in the kindest sense possible. Lexus makes a very fine automobile, but it's virtues are very different from an M-car. Lexus focuses on quiet refinement, and routinely falls short of the M offerings in (once again) handling.

with Audi depositing sports diffs that correct turn in......why purchase an M3?

One could make the argument that if you need some electrical wizardry to correct shortcomings in your chassis dynamics, you haven't made a real sports car. Why not just start with a chassis that isn't so compromised? Just like the Lexus, you should go drive the Audi and see how it feels. If you prefer it to the BMW, then you should buy it. Audi also makes a great car.

Is not the cadillac ATS better now.

Better than what? Better than older Cadillac models? Unquestionably. Better than the 3-series? It's certainly very, very competitive. Some people prefer it. Better than an M3? Not if performance is what you're after. There is no ATS currently available that can challenge the M3 head-on. That may change in November. I'm excited to see.

I am thankful there is so much to choose from but in 2014, why by the M3?

The M3 still wins head-to-heads for a reason. If you're an automotive enthusiast who still needs some level of practicality in their automobile, the M3 is very, very difficult to beat. You're getting a car that chases the 911 closely in performance and handling, but has four usable seats.

Nailed it !!!!

[K-M3]

I think the M3 ticks the most boxes for the most people for most of the things desired in a sporty car tht is reasonably track capable straight out the box while at the same time offering DD capability and 2+2 seating even in the coupe'

That said, I think there are 2 factors to consider here and I maybe biased a lill bit towards the E92 (I own one but have driven the new M4 and liked it but not enough to switch or buy one if I didn't have the E92) and here's my rationale and I am prepped to be flamed on by F80 owners/likers ----

The E92 series was unique in a way, it was a big jump from the E46. The biggest thing tht moved me was the bespoke engine for this model. No other BMW model has this engine. Loved the previous V10 in the M6 too which was rumored to have its roots in the V10 concept of the erstwhile BMW-Williams F1 team. And the V8 was a straight derivative of tht V10. Part of it could have been marketing but I felt a sense of lineage. What topped it was tht only the M3 would have this engine ... no other BMW. Add to this everything else in the car tht made it a complete package. A do it all car, which suited me great as I really cannot budget for a dedicated track car and a separate DD.

The other thing is, during the E9X's era, as a package, it was miles ahead of its competition. And I think this is what OP was trying to get at. The E9X series was way ahead of its competition during its time than what the F8X series is now as compared to its competition. Relatively speaking. Sure the C63AMG (arguably) had a better engine, but as a package, in my eyes, it was inferior to the M3, especially the interior and the overall user tech tht u actually need in daily driving. Now though, things are different.

If I was in the market for such a car today, I would be patiently waiting for the new C63AMG to hit the market and cross compare the two. The new Z06 is kick ass, but does not fit my requirements for a DD. Would be nice to have cash for both......

Sorry for the long post guys, but I kind of get OP's dilemma .........although the newer class of M's, audi's and merc's is still quite ahead of the cadi's though as far as fit and finish and overall quality goes......the corvette Z06, now thats in a league of its own.......

[K-M3]

Originally Posted by Petros

I actually would NOT buy an M3 right now. When the E90 M3 came out in 2007 it was pretty competitive and fast by the standards of the time. But nowadays I don't think the F80 M3 is really all that special, and not like when the E90 came out. For the price of a new M3 nowadays I'd much rather have a C7 Vette Z51 or a used GTR.

Just reading the entire thread now..... could have just done this!!!!!!! instead of my stupid asssed long post...... lolllllllll

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

First up, road holding is not the same as handling (take 10 minutes to watch that video; it's old but fantastic). It's entirely possible for a car to post an incredible lap time, but be zero fun to drive. The GT-R (/me ducks) is routinely lambasted for this in the automotive press. The GT-R punches way, way above its weight, but reviewers always complain that the handling is sterile. This is a case of a car with superlative road holding, but boring handling.

The M3 is a car of compromises. The typical M3 buyer wants a car that has sports car handling, grip (same as road holding), and performance, but retains some practicality. Yes, I said practicality. The rear seats in the M3 are very usable. Even in the M4, they're usable. Ingress/egress is a pain in the ass, but there's room back there.

In terms of performance and grip, the M3 nips at the heels of some very real sports cars; like the oft compared 911. The differentiator between the M3 and many of the cars you listed is that it handles better than most other gussied up passenger saloons (which is ultimately what the M3/4 is).

To answer some of your questions directly:

With a couple Caddillacs now posting faster lap times and 0-60s

Lap times are not everything. It's unlikely that you're going to put any serious track time in with your sports sedan, so lap times are a very limited metric. You will, however, feel the difference in handling on a day-to-day basis. The CTS-V posts incredible lap times, but it's a much bigger/heavier car than the M3 (almost 700 lbs heavier). In day-to-day driving, you'll notice the weight. The upcoming ATS-V might be a better competitor, but we'll have to wait and see. Historically, the M3 differentiates itself from the domestic offerings in chassis dynamics. I'm sure we'll see some head-to-heads.

with Lexus having one of the best interiors(even though the media hasnt liked them) and great balance

Go drive a Lexus. If you like the way it drives, and you're OK with the fact that a slushbox automatic is your only option, then by all means, buy a Lexus. I know slushbox is derogatory, but I mean that in the kindest sense possible. Lexus makes a very fine automobile, but it's virtues are very different from an M-car. Lexus focuses on quiet refinement, and routinely falls short of the M offerings in (once again) handling.

with Audi depositing sports diffs that correct turn in......why purchase an M3?

One could make the argument that if you need some electrical wizardry to correct shortcomings in your chassis dynamics, you haven't made a real sports car. Why not just start with a chassis that isn't so compromised? Just like the Lexus, you should go drive the Audi and see how it feels. If you prefer it to the BMW, then you should buy it. Audi also makes a great car.

Is not the cadillac ATS better now.

Better than what? Better than older Cadillac models? Unquestionably. Better than the 3-series? It's certainly very, very competitive. Some people prefer it. Better than an M3? Not if performance is what you're after. There is no ATS currently available that can challenge the M3 head-on. That may change in November. I'm excited to see.

I am thankful there is so much to choose from but in 2014, why by the M3?

The M3 still wins head-to-heads for a reason. If you're an automotive enthusiast who still needs some level of practicality in their automobile, the M3 is very, very difficult to beat. You're getting a car that chases the 911 closely in performance and handling, but has four usable seats.

Close to a 911 in terms of straight line speed but not close in terms of pretty much any other aspect of performance...overall experience, not close on handling, at the track, feel, precision, and the list goes on.
The reason the M3 used to be the car to buy was it was the best in its segment (M3, RS, C63, etc). I'm not so sure I see it that way anymore. By the end, the C63 LCI was arguably the better car and I have a feeling based on the weight, power and what Merc is offering (their best car is easily far better than BMW's best) they very well could be the car to beat in this segment.

[Z K]

The M3 is the only car in it's class (high performance sports sedan) that comes with a manual transmission.

It also handles very well and is a good compromise between harder core cars (Corvette, Porsches etc) and regular luxury cars (3 series, ATS, C-class, Lexus IS).

That's why it's desirable. If you are looking at posting great numbers, then it isn't the car for you.

[Yay-Z]

It's a tough decision. There are a lot of good cars out there now.

Even the mustang is stepping up.

I got the E90 M3 because it's what I wanted for handling, feel, sound and practicality.

If I was looking at the newer cars I would be waiting for the C63 AMG or Mustang GT as the F80 just isn't doing it for me.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by K-M3

I think the M3 ticks the most boxes for the most people for most of the things desired in a sporty car tht is reasonably track capable straight out the box while at the same time offering DD capability and 2+2 seating even in the coupe'

That said, I think there are 2 factors to consider here and I maybe biased a lill bit towards the E92 (I own one but have driven the new M4 and liked it but not enough to switch or buy one if I didn't have the E92) and here's my rationale and I am prepped to be flamed on by F80 owners/likers ----

The E92 series was unique in a way, it was a big jump from the E46. The biggest thing tht moved me was the bespoke engine for this model. No other BMW model has this engine. Loved the previous V10 in the M6 too which was rumored to have its roots in the V10 concept of the erstwhile BMW-Williams F1 team. And the V8 was a straight derivative of tht V10. Part of it could have been marketing but I felt a sense of lineage. What topped it was tht only the M3 would have this engine ... no other BMW. Add to this everything else in the car tht made it a complete package. A do it all car, which suited me great as I really cannot budget for a dedicated track car and a separate DD.

There are lots of arguments as to whether the S55 is a bespoke engine or not. Some people claim it is different enough to be bespoke, while others claim it is not. That's a debate that can never be won or lost, because it's all relative. What is your desired level of distinction?

What can be said, unarguably, is that the S65 is more different from its contemporary vanilla counterparts than the S55 is from its counterparts. This is not to say that the S55 is a bad engine. Not at all. It's a spectacular piece of engineering, but it is less differentiated from the rest of the BMW line up.

If this is important to a buyer, it certainly diminishes the allure of the F80 for existing M3 owners. However, we have to consider the broad market, most of which do not own an existing M3, and the E90/E92 M3 is no longer an option as a new car, so we have to compare the F80/F82 to its competition. How does the N55 compare in its distinctiveness to offerings from AMG, Audi, Cadillac, and Lexus? I think it compares favorably. The N55 has two turbos, an air-to-water intercooler, and a sports car worthy lubrication system and internals.

Originally Posted by K-M3

The other thing is, during the E9X's era, as a package, it was miles ahead of its competition. And I think this is what OP was trying to get at.

I think maybe you're reading a subtext that isn't actually there. The OP doesn't mention the E92 M3, and doesn't even own a car yet. He's ruminating over the choice of new car offerings. The E92 doesn't even play in to it.

Originally Posted by K-M3

The E9X series was way ahead of its competition during its time than what the F8X series is now as compared to its competition. Relatively speaking. Sure the C63AMG (arguably) had a better engine, but as a package, in my eyes, it was inferior to the M3, especially the interior and the overall user tech tht u actually need in daily driving. Now though, things are different.

If I was in the market for such a car today, I would be patiently waiting for the new C63AMG to hit the market and cross compare the two. The new Z06 is kick ass, but does not fit my requirements for a DD. Would be nice to have cash for both......

In 2008, the C6 Corvette Z06 had 505 HP and smoked the hell out of the M3 at its introduction. Bringing up the Vette in any comparison is a mistake. Even when you discount the horrible ride and interior quality of the C6 generation the car was a performer. The Vette was not a competitor to the M3 though, so IMO, it should be left out.

Even when we look at the E92's contemporary competitors, I don't feel like your assessment is accurate. The E92 was definitely well ahead of its competition, but what current car amongst the M3's competition challenges it? To follow your own criteria, we have to compare the F80 to its competition at the time of release, not the cars that came after it. If we engage in that game, the E92 faces some worthy challengers as well.

Originally Posted by K-M3

Sorry for the long post guys, but I kind of get OP's dilemma .........although the newer class of M's, audi's and merc's is still quite ahead of the cadi's though as far as fit and finish and overall quality goes......the corvette Z06, now thats in a league of its own.......

You keep dragging the Z06 in to this fight. The M3 has never out performed the Vette. Arguing which is the better "total package" is pointless, because one is a 2-seat sports car and one is a 4-door saloon. If you need 4-doors, you can't buy a Vette.

The E92 has nothing to do with this conversation. I'm not even sure why its in this forum. If I had to guess, the OP simply went to the first M3 forum he saw and posted it here.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by m3ray

Because this m3post and we like M3s.

are you sure not because racecar?

[///MPharaoh]

A few comments here I def agree with. The M3 does it all. I'm not as big of a fan of the F80 as I am the E9x cars, but they're nice none the less and still excellent for a do it all sports car in that class. Everything else you'd buy in comparison will likely be two doors, less practical, and probably not as well put together feel and luxury wise.

With that said, the F80 M3 with the new DinanTronics tune from Dinan is a bit ridiculous for some quick out of the box hardware/software. Def something to consider! 516hp, 489lb-ft of torque. Yup, that's what I'd do.

http://dinancars.com/product/d440-16...ries&mid=1178/


Drive them all. Make the decision that's best for you