Simulation games to improve driving, car control, etc.

radiantm3 · 01-19-2015, 01:04 PM

Since I first started going to the track only a couple years ago, I've been a huge proponent of using sims to help improve driving skills. As most experienced drivers will tell you, lots of seat time is what helps you improve as a driver. But even 10-12 track days a year isn't quite enough practice if you really want to excel at a fast pace.

I picked up a 125cc rotax max kart last summer hoping to get a lot more track time without spending a ton of money and while the experience of it is incredible and having the keys to hit the track any time you want is nice, I ended up not going as much as I would have liked because maintaining a kart and packing/unpacking everything is just so much more work than taking your car to an HPDE.

Besides having driving coaches at HPDE's and taking a few Skip Barber/Sim Raceway driving courses, I had another learning tool in my arsenal. Gran Turismo 5-6 on the PS3 and a fairly nice wheel setup. I spent hours and hours driving around Laguna Seca in the game before and after my track days at the real LS. And I have proof that it helped. There are 3 local race tracks in my area and I've attended all three about the same amount of times. My times at Laguna Seca drop 1-2 seconds every time I visit while my times at the other tracks have only improved by tenths of a second each time. I'm also incredibly confident at LS and pretty timid at the other 2 tracks. All that time spent lapping LS in Gran Turismo made that track feel completely natural. The common places where cars oversteer into the walls in real life happen at the same spot in game and I've been able to subconsciously learn how to anticipate and deal with those situations with all the practice in a sim.

By now many are probably scoffing at the idea of a playstation game helping with driving and yes there are far better PC sims (many which are used by professional drivers for training) out there. I have since graduated my sim setup from GT6 and have been spending (sometimes) hours a night lapping laser-scanned European tracks in a fantastic PC title called Assetto Corsa. The physics, force feedback, and graphics put most other sims to shame.

If you are one of those guys hitting 6-12 track days a year and wish there was a cost effective way to get more seat time, sims are the way to do it. It's proven (by professional drivers) and it works. My sim setup has become such a good learning tool that I'll probably end up selling my kart soon.

If anyone has questions about the cheapest way to get started or anything else regarding the topic, I'd be happy to answer questions. I'm sure there are a few here that are probably more qualified to answer questions than me as well. The level of driving immersion is definitely related to how much you are willing to spend, but all you really need to start is a PC capable of running games fairly well and a relatively cheap wheel/pedal setup like the Logitech G27 ($250). People spend $3 grand easy on a 2 day driving school, but a sim setup can provide you years and years of practice which is far more valuable than 8-16 hours of a driving school. That's not to say sims are a replacement for real instruction and real track time. It's just a fantastic supplement to them.

I've been trying to record the best representation of my sim experience at home so people can get a sense of the point of view and how real it can look. Here's 1 lap at the Nordschleife in a BMW Z4 GT3:

For the best effect, watch it on youtube with the 60fps quality option.

Here are the current list of cars available with more to come: http://www.assettocorsa.net/officially-licensed-cars/

And the current circuits:
http://www.assettocorsa.net/laser-scanned-tracks/

knolow · 01-19-2015, 01:35 PM

Geezuz that's sh8t is serious. Way to make the commitment.

FogCityM3 · 01-19-2015, 01:55 PM

Impressive!! and thx for the tips, as always.

surlynkid · 01-19-2015, 05:45 PM

I did 36 days last year.

But I would still love a sim setup. That would be badass.

italyix · 01-19-2015, 07:17 PM

Wow amazing! Would you mind posting a pic or a list of ur setup? Thanks!

fhaze3 · 01-19-2015, 09:13 PM

I just installed snoops 'ring. OMG driving the e92 and RUF Porsche is a fantastic waste of time (err I mean practice)

I am mainly an iRacing guy, but rfactor2 and AC have been getting more time recently.

3x24" w/ AMD 7870 T500RS and Fanatec Clubsport V2 Pedals. (Pre-Ordeerd Fanatec's new wheel, should ship end of month

)

StealYourFace · 01-19-2015, 10:50 PM

That's so cool. I have looked into a setup briefly, but I have no clue where to start. Even though I am only (?) 35 yr old, I never had any interest in video games as running marathons and autocross took up all my free time when I wasn't working and going to school in my teens and 20s. This stuff has just totally gone past me without taking notice.
I'd love a sim to practice the glen during the winter

There would totally be a market for a decent sim setup like that if the price was under like 2 grand.

radiantm3 · 01-19-2015, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by italyix

Wow amazing! Would you mind posting a pic or a list of ur setup? Thanks!

Sure, but just to help those out who have no idea where to start, I'm just going to write up a bit more.

Fairly Basic Setup

Well let me start out by saying this would be my setup of choice if I had limited space or wanted to be able to move the setup fairly easily:

This was my old setup and it was very sturdy and worked great for sitting it in front of a big TV and moving it into the corner when not in use.

It consisted of the following:

Porsche 911 GT3 RS V2 Wheel(Technically mine was the GT2, but its $70 more just for Xbox 360 support)
http://www.fanatec.com/us-en/racing-...-wheel-us.html

Clubsport V2 Pedals(Pictured are the V1, but they don't sell them anymore)
http://www.fanatec.com/us-en/pedals/...als-v2-us.html

CSR Shifter
http://www.fanatec.com/us-en/shifter...er-set-us.html

CSL Seat
http://www.fanatec.com/us-en/play-an...l-seat-us.html

Sim Options

With this setup you can hook it up to a PS3 and play GT6 which is a great way to get into the world of sims for cheap (if you don't have a PC that can run games well). PS3's are pretty cheap and you can probably buy the game for like $20 new now. Just remember to turn off all the driving aids and set the game to simulation if you want GT6 to be helpful. I know some might say the Forza series on Xbox is a sim too, but it's honestly a sim designed to be use with a controller. If you hook up a 900 degree steering wheel to any game in that series (haven't tried the latest though), you'll quickly realize that it's not much of a sim at all. The force feedback is horrible and the wheel reacts completely wrong.

If you really want to drive something more serious and modern, there are lots of choices on the PC assuming you can build/buy a gaming PC (or already have a pretty capable machine). If you already have a PC and can run 3d games pretty decently, it might not be a bad idea to just try it out. Maybe you can get away by just upgrading the graphics card.

iRacing.
A lot of guys swear by this game, but mainly for its strong racing community. I found it a pain to setup, the graphics weren't very great, and I didn't like the idea of paying a monthly fee and more to buy cars individually. However if you want to race in organized leagues, this is probably the place to be. Also worth noting is if they have your local track, that might be worth it alone. They are all laser scanned so you can really use them as a tool. Here's the list of tracks: http://www.iracing.com/tracks/

Rfactor 2.
The tire model in this sim is fantastic. The graphics are almost laughable. They have the skip barber formula cars, Lime Rock Park, Palm Beach IR, and Mills Metro Park. The limited amount of cars feel great to drive though. Personally I'd probably skip this title because of the next title.

Assetto Corsa.
This sim has won my heart as a driver. It has a fantastic range of driver cars and more on the way. The graphics are much better than the titles mentioned above and the physics and tire model are extremely good. The only downside is it's very euro-centric. All of the tracks are from europe (as are most of the cars). But for only $50, this sim is a must buy.

Project Cars.
This sim is going to be released in March. I've heard nothing but great things about it and the graphics are breathtaking. I have my fingers crossed that the physics are up there with Assetto Corsa.

My Current Setup

As for my current setup, I’ve been slowly upgrading components over the years. With each upgrade/addition, I’ve found that the level of immersion while driving has increased. When I get in the zone I tend to forget that I’m not really driving a real car. It’s amazing how your mind can be tricked with enough sensory components that can pass as real.

This setup is huge and can’t be moved (besides dragged across the floor) so I dedicated our “dining room” to my setup.

Pretty much all of my sim hardware is from Fanatec. They make great stuff and I’ve been really happy with everything over the years.

Fanatec Rennsport Cockpit V2 (With the triple screen mount and Sparco Pro2000 seat)
Fanatec Clubsport Wheel Base V2 (Servo) and BMW GT3 Wheel
Fanatec Clubsport Pedals V2
Fanatec Clubsport Shifter
Fanatec Clubsport Handbrake
Logitech 5.1 Surround
3x Asus 27” Displays running at 1080p and 144hz

I recently added a 6 point harness (bought cheap and on sale) because it started to feel so real I kept feeling like I was driving without seatbelt and it effected my focus on driving. Driving with shoes and gloves help immensely because that’s how I’m used to driving at the track in real life.

I have an iPad mounted so I can quickly browse the Assetto Corsa forums or search for setup tips. There’s also telemetry data you can run live on your iPhone/iPad so you can have less data show up on your screens when you play. Sometimes I do that for fun.

Oh and I also wanted to mention the benefits of triple screens. It requires much better computer hardware to run 3 screens. But you can set the sim to have a realistic field of view which really helps with immersion and being able to place the car exactly where you want. And the sense of speed is a lot more realistic since you can see the trackside fly past your peripheral vision. When you are racing, you can see cars coming up next to you and can look ahead further down the track in a lot of corners.

So yea that’s about it. I’m sure to some it looks crazy and borderline psychotic, but nothing beats being able to jump on this at any time I get the urge to just drive. It’s been a huge learning/practice tool for me and I enjoy my time at the real track even more because every time I go I see huge improvements in my lap times and I have more confidence. But beyond that, it’s just a whole lot of fun if you love to drive.

PS. The Cheapest way to get started

Just wanted to mention that there are even cheaper ways to get started. For $250, you can pick up a Logitech G27 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...f_rd_i=desktop) which comes with the wheel, pedals, and shifter. It's not as nice as the Fanatec stuff, but it is a 900 degree wheel and it works just fine.

Wheel Stand Pro (http://www.amazon.com/Steering-Wheel...d_bxgy_e_img_y) is a very small footprint stand that will hold everything together. You'll need your own chair. Fanatec (http://www.fanatec.com/us-en/wheel-s...-stand-us.html) also makes one that is actually a lot cheaper, but you should do the research as to which is better.

If you are planning on playing at a computer desk, you can probably just mount the wheel to the desk (there are clamps). But it's worth mentioning again that the level of immersion/realism you feel while driving in a sim depends on your setup. Sitting in a cockpit in a more realistic driving position is going to feel more real than sitting in your office chair with one of these stands or at your table. But I think the cheap methods are still better than not giving it a shot at all.

radiantm3 · 01-19-2015, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhaze3

I just installed snoops 'ring. OMG driving the e92 and RUF Porsche is a fantastic waste of time (err I mean practice)

I am mainly an iRacing guy, but rfactor2 and AC have been getting more time recently.

3x24" w/ AMD 7870 T500RS and Fanatec Clubsport V2 Pedals. (Pre-Ordeerd Fanatec's new wheel, should ship end of month

)

Nice! I plan on giving iRacing another shot because it has laser scanned versions of 2/3 of my local tracks. You will love the new Fanatec wheel. I got mine in December (one of the early preorders) and it is fantastic.

radiantm3 · 01-19-2015, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

That's so cool. I have looked into a setup briefly, but I have no clue where to start. Even though I am only (?) 35 yr old, I never had any interest in video games as running marathons and autocross took up all my free time when I wasn't working and going to school in my teens and 20s. This stuff has just totally gone past me without taking notice.
I'd love a sim to practice the glen during the winter

There would totally be a market for a decent sim setup like that if the price was under like 2 grand.

I hope my post after yours helps a bit.

StealYourFace · 01-19-2015, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I hope my post after yours helps a bit.

Indeed. I'm going to start piecing it together in my attic I think.

Now I wonder how that shifter would feel with a zhp knob....

AP3X_FTW · 01-20-2015, 12:53 AM

I'm really pumped that I came across your thread, and appreciate the time you put into this. My buddy just sent me a text today in regards to some sim equipment, and I have been thinking about pulling the trigger now that I have a dedicated home office. Like you mentioned, it is difficult to get out to more than 12 -15 HPDE's a year, and with my first kid on the way I am sure getting away wont get any easier

Do you mind giving me some advice on a decent, yet cost conscious setup? Maybe a mix of your first and second phase. I am not looking to spend thousands, but I definitely want quality components in effort to get the most out of the experience. I already have dual monitors, but I am not much of a gamer so I will need to see if my computer is up to the task. I have heard a lot about iRacing, but will certainly look into AC.

The Cockpit V2 can always be added at a later date, and that will reduce my initial cost by $1k right there. Maybe it makes sense to purchase the higher quality wheel, shifter and pedals since those should be done right the first time.

What is the difference between the "racing wheels" and "steering wheels" other than aesthetics?

Are there huge differences in the way the pedals function when comparing the CSR Elite Pedals for $149 vs. the Club Sport V2's for $249?

I feel like the only way to really know this stuff, is by using them first hand and comparing. Your experience/help is much appreciated!

RickyBobby · 01-20-2015, 01:03 AM

Very informative post!
This reminds me that iRacing has been taking my money for the last few months and I haven't been using it.
This makes me want to upgrade my equipment since my track days will be cut back this year (and will likely be in my e36).

radiantm3 · 01-20-2015, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Very informative post!
This reminds me that iRacing has been taking my money for the last few months and I haven't been using it.
This makes me want to upgrade my equipment since my track days will be cut back this year (and will likely be in my e36).

So I re-opened my iRacing account today and gave it another shot. The laser scanned tracks are fantastic. I drove Laguna Seca and Sonoma and felt right at home instantly. Setup wasn't too bad this time and it was fairly simple to get my triple screen setup running right. I don't like the force feedback though. I can't feel the berms and the wheel has no feedback as to what the tires are doing at the edge of grip. It could just be a setting issue that I need to look into. But if your goal is to improve your lines and lap times at a particular track you visit in real life, iRacing seems great for that. Also noticed that the game runs very well and is optimized for lower spec PC's (compared to Assetto Corsa). While I get about 70-80 fps with my settings on medium in AC, I'm getting over 200 fps with the settings maxed out in iRacing.

Here's a "slow" lap at Sonoma in a Miata Cup car from iRacing.

radiantm3 · 01-20-2015, 02:44 AM