Rear subframe bushings and sway bars only

[EscapeYourMind]

I tried searching for this, but can only find information about rear subframe bushings and sway bars separately. What I am wondering is if anyone has only done the rear subframe bushings and sway bars to a stock m-sport 135i, and what you thought of that upgrade?

I have limited time and money before a road trip, and while I want to do coilovers, I don't have the money. But I want to reduce roll, understeer, and limit the feeling like the rear end isn't connected to the car. So my current thinking is to start by just doing the rear subframe bushings and sway bars.

Will that make a big difference or should I just wait till I can get coilovers?

Thanks!

[klick]

In my opinion sway bars should be done last on a car's suspension, after you have put everything else together. This is due to sway bars making the car feel a bit nervous when driving at the limit. Also, if you have yet to get an LSD for your car, a RSB will put you at higher risk for a wheel to spin and you don't want that...

Now as far as rear subframe bushings, I would definitely say DO IT. Even on your stock M-Sport suspension they should make a difference. This difference should only become more pronounced when you eventually get yourself a set of proper coilovers. I myself have the Whiteline RSFBs and they have been GREAT! Cost a fraction of the M3 ones and imo work just as well. If you can, I would go any buy some AKG ones. I ended up with the Whitelines since I got a good deal on them and wanted to save some cash since I got a massive amount of work done at once.

Anyways my 2cs

[Pig Farmer]

Originally Posted by EscapeYourMind

I tried searching for this, but can only find information about rear subframe bushings and sway bars separately. What I am wondering is if anyone has only done the rear subframe bushings and sway bars to a stock m-sport 135i, and what you thought of that upgrade?

I have limited time and money before a road trip, and while I want to do coilovers, I don't have the money. But I want to reduce roll, understeer, and limit the feeling like the rear end isn't connected to the car. So my current thinking is to start by just doing the rear subframe bushings and sway bars.

Will that make a big difference or should I just wait till I can get coilovers?

Thanks!

There's only one reason to postpone installing the RSFBs until you install the coilovers.... So you don't have to perform two separate alignments. You can install a stiffer front sway bar anytime without the need for an alignment. I wouldn't recommend touching the rear sway bar. A stiffer rear sway bar will promote lifting of the inside rear wheel during a turn. With an open differential, your inside wheel is more likely to spin and your TC will become more intrusive. Even those who track the cars with clutch type LSDs seldom add a stiffer rear sway bar, and one team actually removed the rear sway bar and saw better times.

So will adding the RSFBs and front sway bar make a big difference? Yes, your car will be much more settled in the corners. The car will still pitch excessively front-to-back while accelerating and braking, but that can be addressed by installing coilovers with proper spring rates. Honestly, if you had to choose between installing RSFBs & FSB or installing coilovers, the RSFBs & FSB would be my choice. But you need all three to really appreciate the chassis capabilities.

[EscapeYourMind]

Thanks for the info guys! I have been doing more reading and have noticed people saying to not do rear sway bar without an LSD for the reasons you guys mentioned, so I think that is out. I'll probably end up just doing the FSB and the RSFB and waiting on the coilovers for now till I can afford something decent rather than rushing it. It sounds like that should be a decent improvement over the stock suspension. Now to decide on which ones!

[_Ryan_]

e90/1M bars and M3 subframe bushings is a logical first step, the OEM 1M survives...

[Solo_M_Tech]

I have the M3 RSFB insatalled and the E92 M3 front sway bar. Best money I've spent on my car. Period. Im also running a 245/35 front tire in MPSS. The extra grip from the wider wheel/tire combo and M3 sway bar has eliminated 90% of my understeer issues. I left the rear sway bar stock, since I don't have a LSD. Combined with my suspension/alignment settings, the RSFB, and M3 sway bar has made the biggest difference in car turn in response and rotation mid-corner. Long story short, just do it.

[Dackelone]

One reason why you DO NOT want to do a rear sway bar is bc it will lift the inside wheel/tire - making the car more useless in the turns. Only do a rsb when you have a LSD.

Do install the M3/1M rear subframe bushings... best money you will spend on the car.

[John_01]

If you plan on getting coil-overs in future, you will then have higher spring rates which will increase the roll stiffness in the rear. You may not need to change the rear sway bar at all.
It may still depend on a lot of factors including your usage and preference, which coil-overs you buy, etc.

[brocklanders]

I just want to throw in another opinion here. I have done a rear sway, my reasoning is that I want the car to feel more like a sports car. I never track my car and do autocross as much as possible, I only autocross for fun I don't care who is faster. I may have very well decreased the limits of my car but I never take it to the limit, at 50- to 80% of the limit it performs much more precise and feels amazing compared to the way it left the factory. So I say if you're going to race on a curciut then leave the rear sway alone, but I doubt you would be here asking for advice, if not go for it, I went with eibach sways, which are not as big as other options, whiteline subframe bushings and swift springs with Bilstiens and it drives the way I think a BMW should which is why I drive a BMW.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by brocklanders

I just want to throw in another opinion here. I have done a rear sway, my reasoning is that I want the car to feel more like a sports car. I never track my car and do autocross as much as possible, I only autocross for fun I don't care who is faster. I may have very well decreased the limits of my car but I never take it to the limit, at 50- to 80% of the limit it performs much more precise and feels amazing compared to the way it left the factory. So I say if you're going to race on a curciut then leave the rear sway alone, but I doubt you would be here asking for advise, if not go for it, I went with eibach sways, which are not as big as other options, whiteline subframe bushings and swift springs with Bilstiens and it drives the way I think a BMW should which is why I drive a BMW.

Can you post a side photo of your car? I would like to see your stance, if you don't mind.

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

One reason why you DO NOT want to do a rear sway bar is bc it will lift the inside wheel/tire - making the car more useless in the turns. Only do a rsb when you have a LSD.

Do install the M3/1M rear subframe bushings... best money you will spend on the car.

Do you have first hand experience with this "issue"?

[chris82]

I'd definitely do the M3 RSFB, it's a great upgrade and a lot of people will tell you that from their own experiences doing it. It's worth the cost based on everything I've read. I get mine in tomorrow

In regards to the rear sway bar, I'd probably skip that and just get the E92 M3 front sway bar. That will make a bigger difference in how the car feels, especially since you're on a stock car. A stiffer front bar will also reduce the understeer by slowing how fast the weight transfers side to side.

[EscapeYourMind]

Has anyone tried the Turner delrin/aluminum rear subframe bushings? It should be stiffer than the m3 rsfb but I'm wondering about noise and vibration. From doing some reading some people believe it would add a lot, others say it won't and only the diff bushings would. Is anyone with a 135i running them right now?

[brocklanders]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

Can you post a side photo of your car? I would like to see your stance, if you don't mind.

Sorry I'm on my tablet and can't post photos, but if you search "Limited edition" in the photo section you will see different angles and before and after shots.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by brocklanders

Sorry I'm on my tablet and can't post photos, but if you search "Limited edition" in the photo section you will see different angles and before and after shots.

Thank you. Doesn't look like much of a drop really.

[aloksatoor]

Originally Posted by EscapeYourMind

Has anyone tried the Turner delrin/aluminum rear subframe bushings? It should be stiffer than the m3 rsfb but I'm wondering about noise and vibration. From doing some reading some people believe it would add a lot, others say it won't and only the diff bushings would. Is anyone with a 135i running them right now?

Got Turner aluminums on mine. My personal experience, it did not change nvh much. Car still feels the same. The handling of course improves by miles. Less of the dcs cutting in as well.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

Do you have first hand experience with this "issue"?

Which "issue? Upgrading the rear sway bar? If so... just


Here is what I thought of the rear M3 subframe bushings when I had them installed on my car. I love 'em!

Dackel's replacement of rear suspension OE bushings with M3 ones…
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=638163

[_Ryan_]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Which "issue? Upgrading the rear sway bar? If so... just

Sure, it's rare that someone who has done it and has not changed the springs/struts and reported an issue. Mostly it's those with coil-overs and the bars or just those referencing someone else's experience without context.

[brocklanders]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

Sure, it's rare that someone who has done it and has not changed the springs/struts and reported an issue. Mostly it's those with coil-overs and the bars or just those referencing someone else's experience without context.

Just do it, if you have owned your car for awhile and have never been afraid of losing the rear end then I doubt it will effect your driving. As I've said I only did a mild upsize, which is much more rigid. I run auto cross with the dcs fully off and its a blast.

[EscapeYourMind]

Originally Posted by aloksatoor

Got Turner aluminums on mine. My personal experience, it did not change nvh much. Car still feels the same. The handling of course improves by miles. Less of the dcs cutting in as well.

Awesome that is what I was wanting to hear! I ended up going with the Turner delrin/aluminum rear subframe bushings, and the H&R front sway bar only.

Hoping to get them installed on Tuesday before a road trip to Colorado.

Thanks for the help guys!

[Fidiman]

So, I will speak here from my own experience. I did the job myself and swapped the stock bar to the E93 M3 bar.

Despite all the comments about the need of a LSD after replacing the rear sway bar, I can assure you, you won't need it!
In fact the rear weeks never spin, the car is not dangerous at all, etc ...

Next plans will probably be a LSD but not because of the RSB

That mod is a must have. It's just incredible how it transforms the car. It's much more stable. After this mod, you will have a new toy!

[chris82]

Originally Posted by EscapeYourMind

Awesome that is what I was wanting to hear! I ended up going with the Turner delrin/aluminum rear subframe bushings, and the H&R front sway bar only.

Hoping to get them installed on Tuesday before a road trip to Colorado.

Thanks for the help guys!

Good luck with it! You can't go wrong the big front bar, and I doubt you'll notice any NVH increase with those RSFB since the rest of the car back there is stock.