Sport alignment before or after this winter?

[BMW135pls]

I am currently gearing up for a more sporty alignment with more camber, better dampers and springs and all that. In a few months I will switch back to my bridgestone blizzak winter tires, and my question is whether I should try and get these parts installed/alignment before winter, or save it for after the winter passes and I get my PSS summers back on again?

Will the extra camber and better street suspension help or hurt me in the snow and in the dry with winter tires? Here are the current alignment goals, feel free to comment on those as well.

All measurements symmetric
Camber: -2.2 Front, -1.8 Rear
Caster: Maxed positive
Toe: +.1 Front, +.15 Rear

Dampers: Koni Yellow 1 turn from soft
Springs: Swift Spec R

[slonik]

camber associated with your roll. more grip - more roll, so you need more camber.
in winter you have less grip, so less roll and optimal to use less camber angles.

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by slonik

camber associated with your roll. more grip - more roll, so you need more camber.
in winter you have less grip, so less roll and optimal to use less camber angles.

In just two sentences, you described that so well. Now how about the dampers and springs, how do those affect? I'm guessing the more compliance in the stock suspension will offer better grip than the upgrade parts in snow.

[E82MSport]

Better dampers will have better control overall. Having a damper with higher resolution in terms of controlling low and high frequency bumps (compression/rebound) will help to allow the tire to remain in contact with the road surface. Stock dampers do a poor job of this IMO.

Personally I would be more concerned with ride height for a car that serves dual purpose.

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by E82MSport

Better dampers will have better control overall. Having a damper with higher resolution in terms of controlling low and high frequency bumps (compression/rebound) will help to allow the tire to remain in contact with the road surface. Stock dampers do a poor job of this IMO.

Personally I would be more concerned with ride height for a car that serves dual purpose.

Ok, so maybe I will just install the dampers and nothing else. But it makes sense to install the springs at the same time as the dampers seeing as how you need to remove the dampers to get at the springs anyway, and in both situations you will need an alignment. But as you say, the springs will lower the ride height, and that would be bad if it snowed a lot all at once.

Would you install the springs as well, or just leave it as dampers and nothing else until spring comes around?

I do have to increase the front camber a small amount though, because on standard tires, my outside tread and sidewall is getting eaten up, so a little more camber is needed. I'm thinking maybe -1.2 in front and -1.5 in the rear, with the same toe and caster settings listed above. This is still a pretty conservative camber setting, but it will help with my tread wear patterns, and maybe counter some of the snakiness of the winter tires. I think the stock rear camber is -1.5 according to the research I've done, so that will see no change.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by BMW135pls

Ok, so maybe I will just install the dampers and nothing else. But it makes sense to install the springs at the same time as the dampers seeing as how you need to remove the dampers to get at the springs anyway, and in both situations you will need an alignment. But as you say, the springs will lower the ride height, and that would be bad if it snowed a lot all at once.

Would you install the springs as well, or just leave it as dampers and nothing else until spring comes around?

I do have to increase the front camber a small amount though, because on standard tires, my outside tread and sidewall is getting eaten up, so a little more camber is needed. I'm thinking maybe -1.2 in front and -1.5 in the rear, with the same toe and caster settings listed above. This is still a pretty conservative camber setting, but it will help with my tread wear patterns, and maybe counter some of the snakiness of the winter tires. I think the stock rear camber is -1.5 according to the research I've done, so that will see no change.

You are massively over thinking it. Install everything, set the alignment up how you want it for now, and when the snow hits, swap to winters and get another alignment. It's not expensive, and cheaper than disassembling your suspension twice.

[E82MSport]

I agree that installing springs at the same time you're installing the dampers is best. I'd put together a list of the parts you want and see if others have similar so you can get an idea of height and overall impressions.

For the alignment, will you have camber plates or M3 arms? Stock is limited in terms of available camber adjustment and I doubt you can achieve -1.2~ without arms or plates. Arms are worth about -.75 and fixed plates are about the same. Adjustable plates will give you the ability to set wherever you need.

What are your wheel/tire sizes. Include offset if you have that info.

Koni Yellows and Swift springs seem popular or Bilstein B6 HD's with Swift.

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by E82MSport

I agree that installing springs at the same time you're installing the dampers is best. I'd put together a list of the parts you want and see if others have similar so you can get an idea of height and overall impressions.

For the alignment, will you have camber plates or M3 arms? Stock is limited in terms of available camber adjustment and I doubt you can achieve -1.2~ without arms or plates. Arms are worth about -.75 and fixed plates are about the same. Adjustable plates will give you the ability to set wherever you need.

What are your wheel/tire sizes. Include offset if you have that info.

Koni Yellows and Swift springs seem popular or Bilstein B6 HD's with Swift.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the stock alignment limitations. I already have my front alignment pins pulled, and I figure with the koni yellows and swift spec r lowering springs, I might be able to achieve -1.2 in the front. Yes, I plan on installing the M front and rear control arms as well, as well as vorshlag camber plates.

Wheels are 18"
Front Tires are 225 x 40
Rear Tires are 255 x 35
I don't have any offset data, nor do I really know my current alignment. I'd have to assume it's stock at -.5 in front and -1.5 in the rear approximate. I don't know where the toe is, but the caster is probably +6.7 which is stock.

[E82MSport]

Originally Posted by BMW135pls

Yeah, I'm familiar with the stock alignment limitations. I already have my front alignment pins pulled, and I figure with the koni yellows and swift spec r lowering springs, I might be able to achieve -1.2 in the front. Yes, I plan on installing the M front and rear control arms as well, as well as vorshlag camber plates.

Wheels are 18"
Front Tires are 225 x 40
Rear Tires are 255 x 35
I don't have any offset data, nor do I really know my current alignment. I'd have to assume it's stock at -.5 in front and -1.5 in the rear approximate. I don't know where the toe is, but the caster is probably +6.7 which is stock.

Are you running the stock M-Sport wheels (261M)?


Stock 261M wheels
Front - 18" x 7.5" wide ET49
Rear - 18" x 8.5" wide ET52

Personally I would skip the arms in front if you're planning on going with Vorshlag plates (excellent choice BTW). Save the money for now and put it towards the alignment. It's true that the M3 arms give better turn-in feel due to the inner bushings & bearings vs stock bushings but with a little correction to alignment you can achieve the same turn-in response. But if you want to buy them here's a link with the best price found.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...rade-bmwmcakit

In regards to the rear arms I suggest reading this post.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079383

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by E82MSport

Are you running the stock M-Sport wheels (261M)?


Stock 261M wheels
Front - 18" x 7.5" wide ET49
Rear - 18" x 8.5" wide ET52

Personally I would skip the arms in front if you're planning on going with Vorshlag plates (excellent choice BTW). Save the money for now and put it towards the alignment. It's true that the M3 arms give better turn-in feel due to the inner bushings & bearings vs stock bushings but with a little correction to alignment you can achieve the same turn-in response. But if you want to buy them here's a link with the bast price found.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...rade-bmwmcakit

In regards to the rear arms I suggest reading this post.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079383

Yes, they are the stock M Sport wheels. Different style rim, but the dimensions are the same.

I've read that article before, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from it. The guy obviously tested them very scientifically, but that doesn't mean you don't gain something from switching to the M rear arms. I don't really understand what it's saying. I guess they're trying to say it's not an upgrade because in some way, it softens the suspension. That doesn't scare me, because stiffer isn't always better, it's about having the right thing in the right place. BMW obviously thought that in the interest of performance, it was beneficial to be a bit softer in that particular spot because they put an ///M badge on it.

Please explain, because I'm not getting it.

[Solo_M_Tech]

You are drastically overthinking this whole thing.

[E82MSport]

Originally Posted by ApexResistance

You are drastically overthinking this whole thing.

I'll concede there's a little bit of deep thinking going on but that's ok. I respect the fact he truly wants to understand the choices he's making.

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by ApexResistance

You are drastically overthinking this whole thing.

Originally Posted by E82MSport

I'll concede there's a little bit of deep thinking going on but that's ok. I respect the fact he truly wants to understand the choices he's making.

Does that mean I'm a nerd lol.