Looking for 6MT E90 - difference between '08 and '11 worth the price?

[-BEASTMW-]

I recently sold my beloved E39 M5 and am looking for a M3 - must be 6MT, must be sedan. Luckily I have at least a year to look, but I'm noticing that A) sedans were mostly made in '08 and '11... '09 and '10 had low production #s, B) the majority of '11s are DCTs while the majority of '08s are manuals due to later availability, and C) there is an $8-12k price different between similar '08s and '11s.

That is a huge price chasm between cars that are essentially the same, and it's a lot easier to locate a manual sedan that's an '08 than an '11 example. As much as I'd like the improvements of the '11s as well as a literally newer car, I'd love to save $10k or so. As far as I know, the main differences between an '08 and '11 sedan are:

-iDrive updated (this is the most important change to me - about how much $ does it cost to retrofit and is it a big difference? Didn't the '11 have more buttons as well?)

-LCI taillights (like them more, but don't care that much - would personally pay maybe $500 if it was an "option")

-Possibly improved rod bearings - is this a significant difference? Rod bearings do worry me (again, former E39 M5 owner)

-Possibly improved software tuning with more power? Can't this difference be negated with an aftermarket tune?

-Minor interior trim, color, and option package changes (biggest one probably availability of ZCP, which I like but is not a must-have)


What else am I missing? Also, how much do you think three years of "youth" is worth? I know on the M5, I felt like some components like rubber bushings and weatherstripping were probably failing as much from age as from use. I plan to keep this car for a few years so want to get one that will last, and I know low mileage is only part of the equation. I'm also keeping in mind that an '11 will have higher resale value than an '08 when I sell.

[GRUESOM3]

Looks like you got all your bases covered. In 2016 I don't think it matters what idrive car came with because even 2011 cic has old idrive now. There's a nbt retrofit available.

Tail lights , since they aren't important you can also get marz aftermarket tail lights if you don't want to go to full lci swap

Zcp - I wouldn't pay more for that except if it came with 359 wheels.

I would look for a clean low mileage example, but that's just me

[Blindside_137]

Well they are newer and command a higher market value, its as simple as that.

IMO it is not worth 10k more than the 08, but if I were in the market I would look closely at 09 models. That is the year the LCI was introduced with improved Nav and tail lights.

The 09 will likely be a couple thousand more than a similarly equipped 08 and it is worth it alone for the LCI tail light upgrade. That requires lights (roughly 500 I believe) AND a new trunk to retrofit the 08 to an 09 look which would cost thousands, let alone you're still left with the older Nav and iDrive system. Yes it does have more menu buttons now that surround a smaller more intuitive dial. It is so much easier to jump around and navigate with the updated iDrive (this became available in 09 so is in any 09, 10, or 11 model equipped with Nav)

Rod bearings to my knowledge have been hit or miss when it comes to model year, it might be better to find a low mileage car or one with CPO (another reason the 11 models command a higher value)

ZCP is nice, but as you say, not a must have as I personally might get aftermarket wheels and suspension anyway. My search would be probably for 09 models and I would eliminate 08 from my net. Good luck!

[bkdore]

I went through this when I was looking. It's about 2-3K to update the CCC to the factory CIC Nav/Idrive. Since I was looking for a daily driver, I knew I wanted the premium sound, combox, LCI taillights as well as ZCP wheels which are also expensive options to add to a 2008. Just those items for me made it worth the difference in price to buy a 2011 instead of an older car. In my circumstances I financed part of the purchase so a 2011 was much easier to finance and had lower rates. (I found few lenders willing to loan money on a car over 5 years old.) The 2011s are also just off factory maintenance and warranty plans so it's a lot easier to ensure they were serviced regularly. Some still even have some factory warranty left. There were a couple of 2008 low mileage cream-puffs, but it was much easier to find a 2011 in good condition with low mileage. If you can live without the updates, then getting a 2008 could save you a lot.

[nmehta211]

not at all. a well maintained '08 can save you a bundle for a gps that you will never use (hello Waze) and '11 taillights that don't necessarily look better and cost more to repair/replace.

the 08/09 are in the sweet spot of depreciation with a less steep curve. the 11 has room to fall.

[E46M3forRay]

They look the same ✔️
Maintenance will cost the same ✔️
Mostly everyone on the road won't know the difference ✔️
One cost cheaper ✔️
Profit? $$$

[gimmethemuumuu]

I currently have my '08 listed for sale (please see link in signature). It is a 6-speed manual and a sedan. Also, you'll see that it is priced very well, given the fact that it is fully loaded, has relatively low miles, and has an extended warranty. Thanks for looking!

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by E46M3forRay

They look the same ✔️
Maintenance will cost the same ✔️
Mostly everyone on the road won't know the difference ✔️
One cost cheaper ✔️
Profit? $$$

Ha-ha.

OP, the only difference is Navigation, LCI tails and ZCP, and for most owners it's about the wheels and that can be changed easily.


To vhange it out, ZCP wheels are $1800, Navigation will cost $3k and LCI will cost another $2k. So yes Profit!?!

[Amirsm3]

I ended up switching my ZCP wheels to Volks anyway so any argument I made to myself 2 years ago to stick with a 2011 was stupid

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

IMO it is not worth 10k more than the 08, but if I were in the market I would look closely at 09 models. That is the year the LCI was introduced with improved Nav and tail lights.

I would look closely at '09s also, as they have the key updates but are cheaper than '11s and actually don't have the minor cost cuts they did in '11.

The problem is, if you look at the production stats, there were over 2,000 E90s built in 2008 and 2011 (each year), but under 1,000 in 2009 and under 500 in 2010. Refine that down to manuals (29% of North American LCI sedans), in good condition with lower mileage, and desirable colors/options (really want to avoid a black interior for example) and you're talking maybe 100-200 applicable '09s and '10s in the country, a fraction of which are for sale at any given point. So '09-'10 is ideal for me, but it's rare to see one while manual '08 sedans are relatively everywhere.

Originally Posted by bkdore

(I found few lenders willing to loan money on a car over 5 years old.) The 2011s are also just off factory maintenance and warranty plans so it's a lot easier to ensure they were serviced regularly. Some still even have some factory warranty left.

Good point on financing, but it isn't a factor for me. Selling my M5 in addition to selling my current S2000 mean I should be able to pay cash, but even if I decide to finance, PenFed will finance just about anything. I bought my '02 S2000 in 2013 and financed the whole thing through them at 1.74% fixed for 5 years. Try them out next time

Good point on maintenance though. Whatever car I end up with, I really hope it comes with a big stack of papers from each owner like my M5 did.

Originally Posted by gimmethemuumuu

I currently have my '08 listed for sale (please see link in signature). It is a 6-speed manual and a sedan. Also, you'll see that it is priced very well, given the fact that it is fully loaded, has relatively low miles, and has an extended warranty. Thanks for looking!

I have no idea why your car isn't selling. Seems like a screaming deal to me. I've even sent your ad to a few friends telling them they should buy it! However, all of them are on the West Coast.

I'm trying to wait about a year to get my M3, but keeping my eye out on the market. In that year I'm hoping to save some money by driving my S2k (my car needs are very low right now with an easy commute, no house, no kids) and waiting for M3s to depreciate more. But if I was buying now, I would have gotten your car PPI'd weeks ago. Good luck man.

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Ha-ha.

OP, the only difference is Navigation, LCI tails and ZCP, and for most owners it's about the wheels and that can be changed easily.


To vhange it out, ZCP wheels are $1800, Navigation will cost $3k and LCI will cost another $2k. So yes Profit!?!

You're not subtracting the benefit of selling the stock wheels (or using them as track wheels), but yeah. Nav is the biggest difference to me but wouldn't spend the equivalent of a European vacation to have better functionality on something that I don't truly need anyway, haha.

LCI tails/trunk I can live without, and if I ever get rear-ended it'll be a nice little pick-me-up! Reminds me of my Integra days when I almost hoped someone would pull out in front of me so I could get a JDM front end... never did happen!

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

-iDrive updated (this is the most important change to me - about how much $ does it cost to retrofit and is it a big difference? Didn't the '11 have more buttons as well?)

Originally Posted by bkdore

I went through this when I was looking. It's about 2-3K to update the CCC to the factory CIC Nav/Idrive.

I retrofitted for $1k, including coding. Yes, there is a big difference and yes, it is worth it.

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

-LCI taillights (like them more, but don't care that much - would personally pay maybe $500 if it was an "option")

-Possibly improved rod bearings - is this a significant difference? Rod bearings do worry me (again, former E39 M5 owner)

-Possibly improved software tuning with more power? Can't this difference be negated with an aftermarket tune?

I retrofitted the trunk and tails for less than $1000. As far as the software, hit up Alex@Alpine to move you to the most recent engine software, designated 240E. It'll cost you $60 if you're in LA. Rod bearings I'd personally change regardless of the year.

[wanesso]

Originally Posted by nmehta211

not at all. a well maintained '08 can save you a bundle for a gps that you will never use (hello Waze) and '11 taillights that don't necessarily look better and cost more to repair/replace.

the 08/09 are in the sweet spot of depreciation with a less steep curve. the 11 has room to fall.

I have no scientific data, but anecdotally, the '08's have had the least problems....

[dparm]

The CIC is a huge improvement over CCC, in my opinion. The tail lights are nicer too. I personally wouldn't want to go through the hassle of retrofitting all of that stuff. While CIC is already outdated, it is immensely easier to use than CCC.

I'd buy the newest one you can afford.

[12mpgm3]

As noted rod bearings were apparently changed at some point and I believe it was between 08 and 11 (you can search to clarify). Not sure that made any difference but probably couldn't hurt.

Also, 6MT clutch design changed and 08s more expensive to service due to flywheel config. Probably a one time cost south of 1K different but add to the list.

I would def get the newest, lowest mileage car I could if in your shoes.

[rjd598]

it sounds like you answered your own questions. so if you want all the changes get a 2009+. if you don't want the changes get a 2008. don't forget prices drop more in a year lol you'll end up with an 11 most likely

anyone who says the lights aren't worth the upgrade are retarded. pre lci lights are not good looking.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

You're not subtracting the benefit of selling the stock wheels (or using them as track wheels), but yeah. Nav is the biggest difference to me but wouldn't spend the equivalent of a European vacation to have better functionality on something that I don't truly need anyway, haha.

LCI tails/trunk I can live without, and if I ever get rear-ended it'll be a nice little pick-me-up! Reminds me of my Integra days when I almost hoped someone would pull out in front of me so I could get a JDM front end... never did happen!

nope, I'm not accounting for selling any of the older eqiupment. Here's a pro tip, these old pre-LCI equipment is not worth much and it is more cost effective to just hold it and return back to stock when you sell the car. The CIC, ZCP wheels, and LCI lights are worth almost 95% of their used value (which most people buy used). This is what I did, with my 08. I currently have CIC (controller only), and ZCP wheels.


If you need someone to bump your car for ya, give me a call, I'm up to the task.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

I retrofitted for $1k, including coding. Yes, there is a big difference and yes, it is worth it.



I retrofitted the trunk and tails for less than $1000. As far as the software, hit up Alex@Alpine to move you to the most recent engine software, designated 240E. It'll cost you $60 if you're in LA. Rod bearings I'd personally change regardless of the year.

It's hard to retrofit a trunk and tails for less than $1000 if you have a M-specific color. It's near impossible to find SSII, JrzBlack LCI trunks

[SheaButter]

I went through this same decision making process. In the end I went with an 08' since it's my DD. I decided that having a perfect condition 08 with $6-$10k in extra mod money was worth sacraficing the idrive, which let's be honest it's just a novelty. That's just me though, I don't care that my screen isn't updated, and I use my phone docked for nav. HOWEVER if it was Teslas nav sync'd with Google maps, I'd spring for the updated one. Factory nav always sucks, in a few years it will probably be on par with Google Maps (or google maps loaded in).

Goodluck man!

Oh and yes, I dropped $6k in mods in my very first day of ownership So I stuck with my plan!

[dlaw]

I was in the same boat as you and you look like you have done your research.

I ended up with an '08, saved some money for all the necessary maintenance when I picked it up (fluids, spark plugs, waterpump etc.) and still have some money for some basic mods.

Luckily I have a non-M specific color (AW), so I found a LCI trunk and lights conversion from a junker for only $600.

As most have suggested, try finding one that fits your budget and your deciding factor should be condition and low mileage.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

It's hard to retrofit a trunk and tails for less than $1000 if you have a M-specific color. It's near impossible to find SSII, JrzBlack LCI trunks

Prior to installing, I had the lid I picked up repainted @ a local body shop that caters to high end autos, and I still came in under $1000.

[Helmsman]

OP, as you plan to keep the car for several years I'd suggest go for a late model with as much goodies as possible. Definitely Comp Pack (which some seem to forget is quite a bit more than 359 wheels), preferably high end/individual stereo, all gadget such as folding/blend mirrors etc, folding back seat not to forget which of some doesn't come standard on the sedan.

By the time you sell the car it will be old but somewhat rare while a ordinary equipped 08/09 isch will just be (very) old. Value will be kept better and mean while you'll enjoy all the extra stuff the car offer.

Final point, obviously mileage, shape and not the least maintenance history I'd say is key here.

Good luck