Need Expert Advice - 2013 X5M Problems (Lemon or Lemonade?)

[Ninjadust]

Hi all,

Fist time poster here....and first time BMW owner. Many thanks to all of the great info from everyone on here which was super helpful in me making my purchase!

In 4 weeks owning this beast, I have had it in the shop three times, two mechanically related.....Fortunately the truck is under full warranty until October, but I am in need of some expert advice on where I go from here....do I keep the vehicle, or do I move on? I would VERY much appreciate some advice...very sorry for the long post.

Now for the details:

'13 X5M, 30k miles, very clean service history at BMW dealership when purchased.

Trip #1:
Upon receiving the car (purchase from BMW dealership in CA and shipped to CO), I noticed it had a battery discharge alarm. I had planned to take the car to a local dealership and have them do a once over to make sure everything was in tact, look at the battery, get some new tires put on so I went ahead and had them look at it. From my research before I bought the car I knew this was an issue, so no big deal. They replaced the battery.

I show up to pick up the car only for the tech to tell me another alarm came up when they were pulling it up....turned out to be a hose that developed a leak that needed to be replaced. So now I'm thinking OK, I knew these were finely tuned machines and its a rubber hose, so no big deal. Luckily it happened while it was still here. A couple of days later I pick up the vehicle and my SA tells me there is a service bulletin out on the injectors but it hasn't been released yet. Ok....sounds good, I guess I'll have to bring it in again.

Trip #2
Scheduled an appointment to get the injectors replaced.....and have the dealership fix a bad window tint job and fix a scratch they they put in the car. Pick up the car, and noticed an improvement in how it was running. I was pretty stoked.

Trip #3
After driving the vehicle with the new injectors for a little over a week, the vehicle dies on my while driving (fortunately on a side road). I call a tow truck. I tried restarting the vehicle with no luck...not even trying to turn over. No alarms are telling me what is going on so after a while....disconnected the battery to try to reboot the system so I could get it put in Neutral (based on what little information i could find on the web). Still didn't work, but now there are alarms telling me the DSC has failed. Spent about 45 min with the tow truck driver trying to get the car in Neutral to no avail, and finally had to drag it as carefully as possible up on to the truck The driver was able to drop it off at the dealership. PS - Would love to know how you can force the car in Neutral manually (shifter did not work)?

My SA calls me at the end of the day and tells me that I need a new engine. Wow. I don't have a full explanation yet, but he said one of the cylinders is dead. He is locating a new engine and will let me know later today if they can get one in the US or have to have one shipped from Germany.



So here's where I need some advice.....what do I do from here?! I haven't even registered the vehicle yet, or paid sales tax on it. Part of me feels like I've already endured the worst possible thing that can happen and now I'll have a BRAND NEW engine. But the engineer in me thinks that this car will never be the same again and I will never really be able to fully enjoy it while I'm waiting for the next catastrophe. To make things worse, I just read about the airbag safety recall, which, of course, my vehicle is affected by.


Some specific questions I would like feedback on:

-Did I get a lemon and should I try to get rid of it...or did I score by getting a new engine on BMW's dime?

-What can expect reliability wise with a new engine...can I expect them having to take everything apart and put a new engine in causing more issues down the road (gaskets, stress and wear on hoses, etc.) Or can I expect this thing to be rock solid from here on out?

-What is the likelihood that new new injectors caused the catastrophic failure?

-Do I have any recourse here to get the dealership I bought it from to take the vehicle back?

-How much does this hurt the resale potential of the vehicle? I know I personally would have stayed away from a vehicle if I knew it had to have the engine replaced.


My gut is telling me that I need to try to move on from this vehicle, but I would greatly appreciate some feedback.


Cheers...

[kcheves]

The battery and hose issues were routine, and the injectors were a known issue handled under a service campaign.

If you are love the car and are keeping it long term, I think you scored, but you might want to extend the warranty. If your confidence is shaken and you just don't want to deal with the uncertainty, now is the time to give it back.

[boneca]

Hi, welcome and sorry to hear about u bad experience with u new car!
I'm by no means an expert but I've been in some what similar situation last year.
I had driver shaft disconnect on highway, which leaded to brand new transmission, new shafts and covers, water pump, turbo lines, AC issues and all of this in one month length. I had a car for 2 years at that point but after getting all new parts for free I wasn't confident in the car anymore so I let it go with negative equity, it wasn't the best financial decision for me but it wouldn't happen if I didn't stumble upon the car I always wanted!
now for x5m, I had a car for about 4 months and didn't have anything major yet (couple of disturbing messages such as u engine and transmission malfunctioning) yes not a good sign but they seems to go away and no codes to trace, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm heading to service the day after tomorrow for ejectors replacement and hoping not to run in to any issues after, I also have few things I want them to take care of while in there.
At the end it all comes down to what you think is right for you? Put the numbers together, did you get a great deal? If yes maybe its gonna be smart to keep it!
If no, maybe you'll be better off finding something better!
Good luck with any decision you'll make and keep us updated!

[Poppyboy]

Some states have statutes which require dealers to take back problematic used cars within a specific time frame. I don't know the statute in Colorado. I recommend getting the car entirely up to speed, including the eventual airbag recall, and selling it.

[heatmizr]

Wow, I can't be of too much help but I can offer this one data point:
I have the 50i twin turbo v8, and the engine did have to come out of the vehicle (before I bought it, part of the N63 cust care pkg) to have the front valve cover removed for a gasket replacement. Amazingly, they got it all re-installed well enough that I have not detected any issues EXCEPT that they over-torqued a front axle nut on the left (have to disconnect those to remove engine). This showed up shortly after I bought it as a hard metal clank when I turned right, such as turning right from a dead stop. Different dealer fixed it under warranty.

So, I would think an engine being replaced is more or less the same thing as mine coming out and back in. It can be done and done well, depends on shop I guess, either way I would want them to offer some kind of warranty extension maybe.

[PAX5]

WOW! I truly feel sorry for your experience.

Selling Dealer:
Your ability to have any recourse with the selling dealer in CA all depends on the terms and conditions of your sales contract:
- how much time has passed since the catastrophic engine failure occurred?
- did you read front and back and all the small print in between on your sales contract? You can't sue, most contracts have an arbitration clause.
- did you make payment in full? usually that concludes the transaction. Any subsequent recourse is dictated by what state consumer protection laws apply to you.

Current Dealer:
- the engine failure could be attributed to a number of things, but here's the thing: since this occurred after the current dealer installed injectors, it most likely is caused by a faulty injector installation. This is fairly common, according to a BMW tech friend of mine. BMW's procedure for replacing injectors takes hours and require precision tools and skilled hands. Many tech take shortcuts (it's human nature). If the injector is not placed precisely in the hole, with the rubber seal firmly pressed in place, funny things happen. Also, each injector needs to be carefully and completely calibrated to the cylinder it is matched to. This is done with programming, some of it in German and takes time .... The perfect place for a shortcut ...

One of the cylinders being dead probably means that it was washed down with a excess gasoline from the injector, causing oil dilution and loss of pressure, leading to catastrophic failure ...

Problem is, you will never know, because the dealer will never admit that. They don't want to be the one on the hook.

Insist/demand on a PUMA case (PUMA = Product and Measures Management Aftersales". It is actually German "Produkt- und Maßnahmenmanagement Aftersales). Get the BMW engineer from BMWUSA involved. Insist on being involved in their findings.

A new engine isn't necessarily bad ... but it won't be a complete new engine. It will probably just be the core engine block and cylinder heads.

Going forward, your new engine will be just as reliable as the rest of us with a N63 engine ... we just don't know.

Did they give you a loaner in the mean time?

Keep us posted, please.

[X-static]

A true "lemon" would have displayed some issues prior to 30k miles. My 2011 X5M is having the injectors replaced today, I hope they call me and offer up a new engine.

That being said, the battery, injectors, hose, and even the airbag are not that alarming or cause for concern. In fact I was told that most injectors will never develop symptoms (mine had not yet at 58k miles), and also that BMW has not had any actual incidents regarding the airbag. This recall is based on the manufacturer of the airbag module having deployment issues in other makes.

My .02 is to first ask for a valid explanation on the need for an engine swap, the symptoms you described sound to be more electrical than mechanical and the term "dead cylinder" usually refers to an injector or ignition failure. Ask them to validate this in the event they are simply trying to exploit your existing warranty for some reason. Is this a reputable BMWNA Dealer?

Second, ask BMW to provide a "good faith" extension to to powertrain warranty, if in fact you do get a new engine.

Third, enjoy the new ride (after you break-in the new engine)!

[Poppyboy]

Keep in mind, when you go to sell, there's a story. Many buyers don't like stories.

[Ninjadust]

Thanks very much for the quick feedback everyone....VERY helpful!

Here's an update...I stopped by the dealer yesterday (Schomp BMW in Denver), and talked with the service foreman. I retold my story of what happened and it sounded like he was investigating based on the idea that something with the injectors could have caused the issue. Once I told him that the engine never turned over when I tried to restart it he now thinks it could be an oil/lower engine issue. He said it actually makes more sense since when he scoped the top he didn't see anything in the cylinders. He hopes to complete his assessment today and then start the process with the mothership.

I took PAX5's advice and mentioned the PuMA and asked to be involved with that process and it seemed to catch them a little off guard. My SA seems pretty accommodating so we'll see how it goes. They put me in a 428 as a loaner.

I am going to have some conversations with some sales folks to see what my options could be once the vehicle is fixed, but based on my research I doubt that I have any recourse with the selling dealer in California.

Sadly the path of least resistance (but most discomfort) may be seeing this out and seeing how the vehicle is after the fix. I am still going to pursue my other options in the next 2 weeks since my sales tax and registration is coming up due on it. I also will push hard on BMW to at least help me out with an extended warranty since I was waiting to get close to the end of the mfg warranty in October to pull the trigger. It sounds like the new engine inherits the 30k miles as far as the warranty goes.

I'll keep everyone posted...but would leave to hear from others if you have had a similar experience.

Cheers...

[patents]

Originally Posted by Ninjadust

It sounds like the new engine inherits the 30k miles as far as the warranty goes.

Not quite sure how BMW does it, but in my experience with others brands all dealer repairs get a one year warranty (with some sort of mileage limit). It's possible that the new engine will have a warranty that will go a little longer than the original warranty on the car simply because it has its own warranty as a dealer repair.