Used E92 M3: Won't allow PPI

xwilkinx · 10-20-2017, 05:08 PM

So I've been looking to trade in my E92 328i for an E92 M3 and after a few months of searching I've found a 2011 model that I love. Has all the options that I wanted and only has 1 previous owner.

It's being sold by a used car lot who specialize in European and Japanese higher-end cars (they also have an M4, multiple AMGs, RS5, etc). The M3 comes safety certified. They have a pretty big presence, as there are many reviews which are overwhelmingly positive.

After negotiating with them for a few weeks, and after a long-test drive, we've agreed on a price that I'm happy with. I'm ready to pull the trigger but then they tell me that they don't allow PPIs by 3rd parties for "insurance reasons and unknown risk factors".

This annoyed me so much because I mentioned to the them the deal will of course rely on a PPI many times before agreeing on a price. After pushing them hard on this, they now say I can bring a mechanic to their shop and use their hoist or get it inspected AFTER I leave a deposit and sign the bill-of-sale with the condition "subject to inspection".

The whole situation leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, especially since I've no problems with PPIs in the past. I'm about to walk away from this car solely on that.

Can anyone offer any advice or insight? Appreciate it.

Munichm3 · 10-20-2017, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwilkinx

So I've been looking to trade in my E92 328i for an E92 M3 and after a few months of searching I've found a 2011 model that I love. Has all the options that I wanted and only has 1 previous owner.

It's being sold by a used car lot who specialize in European and Japanese higher-end cars (they also have an M4, multiple AMGs, RS5, etc). The M3 comes safety certified. They have a pretty big presence, as there are many reviews which are overwhelmingly positive.

After negotiating with them for a few weeks, and after a long-test drive, we've agreed on a price that I'm happy with. I'm ready to pull the trigger but then they tell me that they don't allow PPIs by 3rd parties for "insurance reasons and unknown risk factors".

This annoyed me so much because I mentioned to the them the deal will of course rely on a PPI many times before agreeing on a price. After pushing them hard on this, they now say I can bring a mechanic to their shop and use their hoist or get it inspected AFTER I leave a deposit and sign the bill-of-sale with the condition "subject to inspection".

The whole situation leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, especially since I've no problems with PPIs in the past. I'm about to walk away from this car solely on that.

Can anyone offer any advice or insight? Appreciate it.

Just hire a mechanic and bring them to the shop, I don’t see the big problem here.

6ixSpd · 10-20-2017, 05:20 PM

Which dealer is this? That's really odd considering it's fairly standard practise these days. Did you place a deposit yet?

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwilkinx

After pushing them hard on this, they now say I can bring a mechanic to their shop and use their hoist or get it inspected AFTER I leave a deposit and sign the bill-of-sale with the condition "subject to inspection".

Looks ike you haven't put any money on the table, no wonder they don't want to do it... All dealers work like this. Until you leave a deposit with an agreed price subject to a PPI, they won't let you take the car off the lot. Put your money down, sign the agreement, get the PPI and be done with it. Not sure what the problem is.

xwilkinx · 10-20-2017, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munichm3

Just hire a mechanic and bring them to the shop, I don’t see the big problem here.

Normally I have no problem with that, but the fact I had to push them so hard just to have that option is a red flag to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Which dealer is this? That's really odd considering it's fairly standard practise these days. Did you place a deposit yet?

edit:
Looks ike you haven't put any money on the table, no wonder they don't want to do it... All dealers work like this. Until you leave a deposit with an agreed price subject to a PPI, they won't let you take the car off the lot. Put your money down, sign the agreement, get the PPI and be done with it. Not sure what the problem is.

I told them I have no problem leaving a deposit, but they want a deposit AND the bill of sale signed with the condition "subject to inspection" which is too vague. Not to mention I wouldn't sign the bill of sale unless I 100% want to buy the car.

Send me a PM if you want the name of the dealer.

E46M3forRay · 10-20-2017, 05:34 PM

How much is the deposit ?

EnVe46 · 10-20-2017, 05:54 PM

I'd just tell them to put in the bill of sale subject to PASSING PPI and not just subject to inspection, that should clear up any concerns you have and shows good will on your part that if/when it does pass you'll take the car. I'm sure they had a situation where a car got hit or something during a PPI and no longer allow it.

Dr. Dre · 10-20-2017, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwilkinx

So I've been looking to trade in my E92 328i for an E92 M3 and after a few months of searching I've found a 2011 model that I love. Has all the options that I wanted and only has 1 previous owner.

It's being sold by a used car lot who specialize in European and Japanese higher-end cars (they also have an M4, multiple AMGs, RS5, etc). The M3 comes safety certified. They have a pretty big presence, as there are many reviews which are overwhelmingly positive.

After negotiating with them for a few weeks, and after a long-test drive, we've agreed on a price that I'm happy with. I'm ready to pull the trigger but then they tell me that they don't allow PPIs by 3rd parties for "insurance reasons and unknown risk factors".

This annoyed me so much because I mentioned to the them the deal will of course rely on a PPI many times before agreeing on a price. After pushing them hard on this, they now say I can bring a mechanic to their shop and use their hoist or get it inspected AFTER I leave a deposit and sign the bill-of-sale with the condition "subject to inspection".

The whole situation leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, especially since I've no problems with PPIs in the past. I'm about to walk away from this car solely on that.

Can anyone offer any advice or insight? Appreciate it.

Run. Run Like Hell

6ixSpd · 10-20-2017, 06:14 PM

Is the car at F. A. S.?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwilkinx

Normally I have no problem with that, but the fact I had to push them so hard just to have that option is a red flag to me.

I told them I have no problem leaving a deposit, but they want a deposit AND the bill of sale signed with the condition "subject to inspection" which is too vague. Not to mention I wouldn't sign the bill of sale unless I 100% want to buy the car.

Send me a PM if you want the name of the dealer.

Honestly it still sounds normal to me. Just make sure you write down "subject to successful PPI." They won't force you to buy the car, they can't. No serious dealer worth their merit would do that. Even in the worst of situations, deposits are refunded.

Signing the bill of sale with a deposit shows you are serious and are ready to buy, pending a PPI. It means you've ironed out the numbers, you like what you're seeing and unless something catastrophic comes back in a PPI, that you're taking the car. That's what any serious buyer would be doing if they actually want to buy the car off the lot. If you're uncomfortable signing that, it shows you're not fully committed to finishing the transaction and you're not 100% serious..

McSwine · 10-20-2017, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

Run. Run Like Hell

I tend to agree. Not sure I understand their reasoning, but I damn sure wouldn't buy a car like the M3 without having someone that knows what their doing take a look at it.

inTgr8r · 10-20-2017, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Is the car at F. A. S.?

Honestly it still sounds normal to me. Just make sure you write down "subject to successful PPI." They won't force you to buy the car, they can't. No serious dealer worth their merit would do that. Even in the worst of situations, deposits are refunded.

Signing the bill of sale with a deposit shows you are serious and are ready to buy, pending a PPI. That's what any serious buyer would be doing if they actually want to buy the car off the lot. If you're uncomfortable signing that, it shows you're not fully committed to finishing the transaction and you're not 100% serious..

I agree, this 100% normal practice.
I just did this a few weeks ago.

Solo_M_Tech · 10-20-2017, 08:08 PM

Honestly to me it sounds like they want to either 1. hide something or 2. they know about the rod bearing problem, and don't want you using it against them. I'd walk away. The fact they say it's an issue with insurance is bull shit. Once the car is in the 3rd parties possession for the PPI, it's their insurance that's now covering the car in case of damage. SO they have no reason to prevent you from taking it somewhere unless they want to do one of the two reasons I mentioned above.

inTgr8r · 10-20-2017, 08:19 PM

^ a PPI isnt going to pick up rod bearings.
& the car has 100K on it, so rod bearings should be factored in the purchase regardless.

xwilkinx · 10-20-2017, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Is the car at F. A. S.?

Honestly it still sounds normal to me. Just make sure you write down "subject to successful PPI." They won't force you to buy the car, they can't. No serious dealer worth their merit would do that. Even in the worst of situations, deposits are refunded.

Signing the bill of sale with a deposit shows you are serious and are ready to buy, pending a PPI. That's what any serious buyer would be doing if they actually want to buy the car off the lot. If you're uncomfortable signing that, it shows you're not fully committed to finishing the transaction and you're not 100% serious..

No, not from FAS. Similar mileage and specs though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham_sammich

Honestly to me it sounds like they want to either 1. hide something or 2. they know about the rod bearing problem, and don't want you using it against them. I'd walk away. The fact they say it's an issue with insurance is bull shit. Once the car is in the 3rd parties possession for the PPI, it's their insurance that's now covering the car in case of damage. SO they have no reason to prevent you from taking it somewhere unless they want to do one of the two reasons I mentioned above.

This is what I'm afraid of. The insurance line is just dumb, not to mention I offered for either the sales rep or their service manager (they also have a service/repair shop alongside the dealership) to drive the car to the mechanic which is about 10 minutes away. Just as long as I'm there too.

As for the rod bearings that was one of the first things I brought up when negotiating the price and it's already factored into the agreed purchase price.

BOOF-M3 · 10-20-2017, 10:37 PM

I ran into something similar a few times when looking for an X5M. Dealerships said no way to the vehicle leaving their lot for a PPI. They were happy to have a mechanic come there. One dealer mentioned "swapping out car parts" as a reason they did not want to have the vehicle leave their site. Apparently car owners are getting slick, they are removing good parts from dealers cars and swapping in their bad parts such as: Blown speakers, air filters, sensors etc... It's not the same world most of us grew up in apparently.

Munichm3 · 10-21-2017, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

I ran into something similar a few times when looking for an X5M. Dealerships said no way to the vehicle leaving their lot for a PPI. They were happy to have a mechanic come there. One dealer mentioned "swapping out car parts" as a reason they did not want to have the vehicle leave their site. Apparently car owners are getting slick, they are removing good parts from dealers cars and swapping in their bad parts such as: Blown speakers, air filters, sensors etc... It's not the same world most of us grew up in apparently.

Last time I was at a dealer, they gave me the keys and just said bring it back whenever you want

Helmsman · 10-21-2017, 03:06 AM

I don't get this but maybe because PPI over at your side means something different. Surely the dealer should perform an inspection of the car regardless. Over here there is a 6 month warranty for "hidden faults" according to law hence lack of inspection can bite the dealers arse back.
I'd make a run from a dealer who refuses inspection assuming no warranty at all is included.

JackieChiles · 10-21-2017, 05:41 AM

I'd walk. I don't like the way that sounds with the bill of sale portion.

Who knows how this could go if they interpret the ppi as clean and you don't. Who decides if the car "passes" the ppi

It doesn't have to be that complicated and it gives me a bad taste in my mouth. I would refuse and say if a deposit and me paying for the ppi isn't enough, then we will have to move on from this deal.

tooloud10 · 10-21-2017, 10:39 AM

There's no way I'd sign a bill of sale even with a clause about "passing a PPI" included. Ask yourself what that even means on a 7-8 year-old vehicle--I mean, it's not like a PPI is a pass/fail test, it's just an inspection that details anything wrong with the vehicle. On a 2011 they will find something.

I'd offer them the deposit and make it clear that you intend to purchase the car as long as no major issues are found, and leave it up to them. Signing a bill of sale is a great way to paint yourself into a corner.

Dr. Dre · 10-21-2017, 10:46 AM

You have to be willing to walk away. I found an E90 Interlagos Blue Competition Package, Tan Interior, 6MT. I was able to do a PPI and found that it had valve cover leak. The car was bought at an auction. It was a hard car to walk away from but I did anyway.

These are expensive cars to fix if you have a major problem.

GP0256 · 10-21-2017, 12:11 PM

I would rather buy a 1-2 owner E92 M3 from an owner with a lower price tag and meticulous service records than a car a dealer won't allow a PPI on. Be patient and the right M will find you, you might just have to wait a bit! Good luck

deansbimmer · 10-21-2017, 12:35 PM

It's not uncommon at all for a dealer to avoid having their inventory transported somewhere offsite for a PPI. Especially if they've already performed their own inspection. Too much could happen to the car during that whole process that could harm the vehicle value or condition. Having a tech come inspect the car on site is their way of compromising. Nothing wrong here IMO.

I'm not sure about what they're trying to do with getting you to sign a bill of sale pending inspection... I could see their thought process though...They may expect that you're going to come back citing minor nit-pick issues and wanting to negotiate price further. They may be trying to prevent the back-and-forth unless something major comes back from the PPI.

eatsleepboost · 10-21-2017, 09:13 PM

Sounds completely normal to me as the above stated.

10-20-2017, 05:08 PM	#1
xwilkinx Straight Edge 48 Rep 191 Posts Drives: F80 M3 • E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Used E92 M3: Won't allow PPI So I've been looking to trade in my E92 328i for an E92 M3 and after a few months of searching I've found a 2011 model that I love. Has all the options that I wanted and only has 1 previous owner. It's being sold by a used car lot who specialize in European and Japanese higher-end cars (they also have an M4, multiple AMGs, RS5, etc). The M3 comes safety certified. They have a pretty big presence, as there are many reviews which are overwhelmingly positive. After negotiating with them for a few weeks, and after a long-test drive, we've agreed on a price that I'm happy with. I'm ready to pull the trigger but then they tell me that they don't allow PPIs by 3rd parties for "insurance reasons and unknown risk factors". This annoyed me so much because I mentioned to the them the deal will of course rely on a PPI many times before agreeing on a price. After pushing them hard on this, they now say I can bring a mechanic to their shop and use their hoist or get it inspected AFTER I leave a deposit and sign the bill-of-sale with the condition "subject to inspection". The whole situation leaves a terrible taste in my mouth, especially since I've no problems with PPIs in the past. I'm about to walk away from this car solely on that. Can anyone offer any advice or insight? Appreciate it. __________________ 2015 F80 M3 - Black Sapphire 2012 E92 M3 - Frozen Silver Previous: 2013 F10 M5 / 2011 E92 M3 / 2009 E92 328i
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10-20-2017, 05:34 PM	#5
E46M3forRay Güdentyte 1157 Rep 1,196 Posts Drives: GT3 & 1M Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (9) Garage List 2023 Model 3 [6.50] 2022 T4R TRD Pro [5.00] 2011 1M [6.67] 2014 991.1 GT3 [10.00]	How much is the deposit ? __________________ CURRENT - 991 GT3 \| Future Classic 1M \| Model 3 \| T4R TRD Pro Lime Rush SOLD - MB M2 CS \| SMB F80 M3 CS \| E90 M3 \| E90 335i \| E46 M3 Vert \| E39 M5 \| E34 525i
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10-20-2017, 05:54 PM	#6
EnVe46 Major 1038 Rep 1,216 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 LeMansBlue Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl iTrader: (1)	I'd just tell them to put in the bill of sale subject to PASSING PPI and not just subject to inspection, that should clear up any concerns you have and shows good will on your part that if/when it does pass you'll take the car. I'm sure they had a situation where a car got hit or something during a PPI and no longer allow it. __________________ 2011.5 E90 M3 LeMans Blue
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10-20-2017, 08:08 PM	#11
Solo_M_Tech Brigadier General 1688 Rep 3,140 Posts Drives: 2014 M5 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Massachusetts iTrader: (7) Garage List 2014 BMW M5 [0.00]	Honestly to me it sounds like they want to either 1. hide something or 2. they know about the rod bearing problem, and don't want you using it against them. I'd walk away. The fact they say it's an issue with insurance is bull shit. Once the car is in the 3rd parties possession for the PPI, it's their insurance that's now covering the car in case of damage. SO they have no reason to prevent you from taking it somewhere unless they want to do one of the two reasons I mentioned above. __________________ 2014 M5 6MT
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10-20-2017, 08:19 PM	#12
inTgr8r Lieutenant General 2432 Rep 11,667 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (10)	^ a PPI isnt going to pick up rod bearings. & the car has 100K on it, so rod bearings should be factored in the purchase regardless. __________________ '21 M2C Hockenheim Silver '18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold) '13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold) '07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
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10-20-2017, 10:37 PM	#14
BOOF-M3 Brigadier General 4452 Rep 4,014 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Pasadena Florida iTrader: (1)	I ran into something similar a few times when looking for an X5M. Dealerships said no way to the vehicle leaving their lot for a PPI. They were happy to have a mechanic come there. One dealer mentioned "swapping out car parts" as a reason they did not want to have the vehicle leave their site. Apparently car owners are getting slick, they are removing good parts from dealers cars and swapping in their bad parts such as: Blown speakers, air filters, sensors etc... It's not the same world most of us grew up in apparently.
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10-21-2017, 03:06 AM	#16
Helmsman Major General 4467 Rep 7,110 Posts Drives: 2011 AW E90 M3 ZCP Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Stockholm, Sweden iTrader: (0)	I don't get this but maybe because PPI over at your side means something different. Surely the dealer should perform an inspection of the car regardless. Over here there is a 6 month warranty for "hidden faults" according to law hence lack of inspection can bite the dealers arse back. I'd make a run from a dealer who refuses inspection assuming no warranty at all is included.
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10-21-2017, 05:41 AM	#17
JackieChiles Lieutenant 226 Rep 473 Posts Drives: 2011 MR M3 6MT Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Texas iTrader: (1)	I'd walk. I don't like the way that sounds with the bill of sale portion. Who knows how this could go if they interpret the ppi as clean and you don't. Who decides if the car "passes" the ppi It doesn't have to be that complicated and it gives me a bad taste in my mouth. I would refuse and say if a deposit and me paying for the ppi isn't enough, then we will have to move on from this deal.
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10-21-2017, 10:39 AM	#18
tooloud10 Captain 767 Rep 849 Posts Drives: '08 M3 convertible Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	There's no way I'd sign a bill of sale even with a clause about "passing a PPI" included. Ask yourself what that even means on a 7-8 year-old vehicle--I mean, it's not like a PPI is a pass/fail test, it's just an inspection that details anything wrong with the vehicle. On a 2011 they will find something. I'd offer them the deposit and make it clear that you intend to purchase the car as long as no major issues are found, and leave it up to them. Signing a bill of sale is a great way to paint yourself into a corner. __________________ M3 - X5 - 911 - Miata - Raptor - Edge
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10-21-2017, 10:46 AM	#19
Dr. Dre the doctor 284 Rep 432 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Alpine White Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: CA, Bay Area iTrader: (0)	You have to be willing to walk away. I found an E90 Interlagos Blue Competition Package, Tan Interior, 6MT. I was able to do a PPI and found that it had valve cover leak. The car was bought at an auction. It was a hard car to walk away from but I did anyway. These are expensive cars to fix if you have a major problem.
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10-21-2017, 12:11 PM	#20
GP0256 Lieutenant 191 Rep 493 Posts Drives: 2006 MINI GP Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Raleigh, NC iTrader: (0)	I would rather buy a 1-2 owner E92 M3 from an owner with a lower price tag and meticulous service records than a car a dealer won't allow a PPI on. Be patient and the right M will find you, you might just have to wait a bit! Good luck
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10-21-2017, 12:35 PM	#21
deansbimmer BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 3751 Rep 2,907 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 M3 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: DFW, Texas iTrader: (17) Garage List 1988 BMW M3 [0.00] 2013 BMW M3 [0.00] 2011 X5M [0.00] 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	It's not uncommon at all for a dealer to avoid having their inventory transported somewhere offsite for a PPI. Especially if they've already performed their own inspection. Too much could happen to the car during that whole process that could harm the vehicle value or condition. Having a tech come inspect the car on site is their way of compromising. Nothing wrong here IMO. I'm not sure about what they're trying to do with getting you to sign a bill of sale pending inspection... I could see their thought process though...They may expect that you're going to come back citing minor nit-pick issues and wanting to negotiate price further. They may be trying to prevent the back-and-forth unless something major comes back from the PPI.
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10-21-2017, 09:13 PM	#22
eatsleepboost Captain 420 Rep 656 Posts Drives: Evo Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Boston iTrader: (1)	Sounds completely normal to me as the above stated.
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