Tentative ED Itinerary - questions on Swiss passes

[FC]

So far, this is the plan having arrived a day or two before in Munich:

Day 1) BMW factory/museum/car delivery. PM Drive Munich to Salzburg via quick stop at Berchtesgaden (Eagle’s Nest) – 125 miles (3+ hours of driving total)
Day 2) Stay in Salzburg
Day 3) PM Salzburg to Hallstatt – 46 miles (1+ hours of driving)
Day 4) Stay in Hallstatt
Day 5) Early AM Hallstatt to Bolzano (via Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse and the Dolomites) – 261 miles (all day worth of scenic driving).
Day 6) Early AM Bolzano to Lake Como (via Swiz.) – 164 miles (5+ hours of driving)
Day 7) Stay in Lake Como
Day 8) Early AM Lake Como to Interlaken (via Gotthard & Susten passes) – 141 miles (4+ hours of driving)
Day 9) Interlaken to Strassbourg via blackforest (with brief stops along the way) – 211 miles (all day worth of driving)
Day 10) Strassbourg to Rothenburg ob der Tauber (stopping in Stuttgart only to visit MB & Porsche Museums) – 186 miles (3+ hours of driving)
Day 11) Stay in Rothenburg - Have break-in service done – Dealer is 2 miles away. I should be at or over 1200 miles.
Day 12) Rothenberg to Munich via Schwangau – 250 miles (under 4.5 hours total)
Day 13) Return car and fly out.

Any feedback is welcome as far as if you think I'm trying to do too much with respect to driving if you have done those routes. FWIW, I've done ED twice covering the majority of these destinations, but the Swiss passes will be new to me.

First, an odd quirk: I drove the Grossglockner (& the Dolomites) in 2011. For some reason, Google maps will not allow me to route through it. Weird.

As mentioned above, I plan on driving through the Gotthard and Susten passes. The question I have is with respect to the Gotthard Tremola (the early, historic portion). Has anyone driven through it? Is it really scary? I ask because I am driving with 9 & 11 yo's and don't want to totally freak them out. I decided to go Gotthard & Susten instead of Furka & Grimsel in large part because I read Furka can be narrow and unnerving, whereas Susten is beautiful and more flowing.

See: https://jalopnik.com/the-worlds-grea...e-fo-944904488

Map of passes here: https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6098...xsDcI9_ikKALmo

I really wanted to do Stelvio but, while cool to look at, it seems slow, out of the way, and not that great to drive.

Anyway, any experience with the above passes?

[KevinM]

I can't comment on the passes.

In terms of your itinerary, that is pretty aggressive, especially with two children. When I was reading various ED threads while planning mine, the best advice I took away was to reduce the number of places that we stayed at. For us, this turned out to be great advice. You'll have fun either way though!

[FC]

Originally Posted by KevinM

I can't comment on the passes.

In terms of your itinerary, that is pretty aggressive, especially with two children. When I was reading various ED threads while planning mine, the best advice I took away was to reduce the number of places that we stayed at. For us, this turned out to be great advice. You'll have fun either way though!

This itinerary is already more relaxed than our two prior ED trips.

Note that every stop is not a stop for tourism and visiting. As an example, the stay at Bolzano is literally just there to break up the long drive to Lake Como. Not planning anything other than dinner and rest for the next day. Anything else is gravy.

The point of the trip is driving to and through different places.

[hinckley]

Great trip! And it sounds like your kids are experienced travelers. My only real comment on the itinerary is Day 1. The museum, the factory, pick-up and a drive may be almost impossible. You may want to skip Berchtesgaden and head straight down the autobahn to Salzberg. That's a much easier drive, especially after everything else you packed in that day.

One other thing I'll mention . . . about 30 minutes from Interlaken is a small town called Grindelwald. Fabulous little village that usually gets overlooked. You'll need two nights because you'd only go to take the in-between day to experience the old cog-train ride up the Eiger to the Jungfraujoch, the highest peak in Europe. There's a permanent glacier up there and the last time we were at the peak it was like the middle of the winter in July. It's a great kids' trip but you do need to pack winter clothes for the day!

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by hinckley

One other thing I'll mention . . . about 30 minutes from Interlaken is a small town called Grindelwald. Fabulous little village that usually gets overlooked. You'll need two nights because you'd only go to take the in-between day to experience the old cog-train ride up the Eiger to the Jungfraujoch, the highest peak in Europe. There's a permanent glacier up there and the last time we were at the peak it was like the middle of the winter in July. It's a great kids' trip but you do need to pack winter clothes for the day!

Second this! We stayed in Grindelwald at Hotel Gletschergarten for 2 nights during our 2016 Euro Delivery (#CentennialMTour). Family run, been in the family for four generations, fantastic hosts! We took a cable car day trip up to Grindelwald First and did the Cliff Walk, a cliffside walk to the summit.

We did the trip to the Jungfraujoch during our 2011 Euro Delivery and stayed in Murren, another quaint Swiss village across the Lauterbrunen Valley from Grindelwald. We thoroughly enjoyed the ride up and back, and had a lot of fun at the Jungfraujoch, even though it was mostly socked in with clouds.

[FC]

Yeah I've been to Interlaken twice but never managed to make it to Grindewald. I'll see if I can tweak things.

[jhills]

Originally Posted by FC

As mentioned above, I plan on driving through the Gotthard and Susten passes. The question I have is with respect to the Gotthard Tremola (the early, historic portion). Has anyone driven through it? Is it really scary? I ask because I am driving with 9 & 11 yo's and don't want to totally freak them out. I decided to go Gotthard & Susten instead of Furka & Grimsel in large part because I read Furka can be narrow and unnerving, whereas Susten is beautiful and more flowing.

See: https://jalopnik.com/the-worlds-grea...e-fo-944904488

Map of passes here: https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6098...xsDcI9_ikKALmo

I really wanted to do Stelvio but, while cool to look at, it seems slow, out of the way, and not that great to drive.

Anyway, any experience with the above passes?

I have been lucky enough to visit Switzerland the past three summers and would highly recommend it to anyone. The first time we visited was in May and the day we drove to Lauterbrunnen (by Interlaken) it was snowing and by the morning they had received 1 foot of snow! The next day the sun was out and waterfalls were everywhere. All the high mountain passes were closed in May.

The next summer we went in July and I made it a priority to drive the Big 5 mountain passes of Switzerland: Susten, Grimsel, Furka, Nufenen, and Gotthard Tremola. All were spectacular. But I would have to say the drive over Gotthard Tremola was amazing. It is all cobblestone, which is a rough ride for the GoPro but the scenery unbelievable as the road cuts up over the rocky terrain. Definitely should do this drive. The kids should love it.

I would have liked to have driven the mountain passes a little more aggressively then my wife allowed, but we didn't have any issues. The switchbacks are often so short you can't really get your speed up before it is time to hairpin turn again. Lots of signs reminding motercyclists to not fly off the road, but overall the roads are well maintained and safe. Weekends are sometimes very busy with traffic and that can make things more difficult.

I wouldn't say that any of the mountain passes are scary, but you are up high and have to keep a close eye on the driving even though you are also trying to soak in the beauty of the Alps. This was a destination trip and would highly recommend it to everyone that enjoys driving!!

In Switzerland it is easy to get around on the major roads. However, they tend to be sticklers for speed enforcement. After our third trip to Switzerland this past year I arrive home and a month later I received a nice envelope in the mail from the Lucerne police informing me of a speeding violation during my visit. It was like 80 km/h in a 70 km/h zone. 20 Euro fine was all so I paid it happily. I have heard of other tickets being in the 100-300 euro range. Well worth the experience however.

The other spots on your list will not disappoint either. Driving in Germany is the best however!!! Have a great trip.

[FC]

Originally Posted by jhills

I have been lucky enough to visit Switzerland the past three summers and would highly recommend it to anyone. The first time we visited was in May and the day we drove to Lauterbrunnen (by Interlaken) it was snowing and by the morning they had received 1 foot of snow! The next day the sun was out and waterfalls were everywhere. All the high mountain passes were closed in May.

The next summer we went in July and I made it a priority to drive the Big 5 mountain passes of Switzerland: Susten, Grimsel, Furka, Nufenen, and Gotthard Tremola. All were spectacular. But I would have to say the drive over Gotthard Tremola was amazing. It is all cobblestone, which is a rough ride for the GoPro but the scenery unbelievable as the road cuts up over the rocky terrain. Definitely should do this drive. The kids should love it.

I would have liked to have driven the mountain passes a little more aggressively then my wife allowed, but we didn't have any issues. The switchbacks are often so short you can't really get your speed up before it is time to hairpin turn again. Lots of signs reminding motercyclists to not fly off the road, but overall the roads are well maintained and safe. Weekends are sometimes very busy with traffic and that can make things more difficult.

I wouldn't say that any of the mountain passes are scary, but you are up high and have to keep a close eye on the driving even though you are also trying to soak in the beauty of the Alps. This was a destination trip and would highly recommend it to everyone that enjoys driving!!

In Switzerland it is easy to get around on the major roads. However, they tend to be sticklers for speed enforcement. After our third trip to Switzerland this past year I arrive home and a month later I received a nice envelope in the mail from the Lucerne police informing me of a speeding violation during my visit. It was like 80 km/h in a 70 km/h zone. 20 Euro fine was all so I paid it happily. I have heard of other tickets being in the 100-300 euro range. Well worth the experience however.

The other spots on your list will not disappoint either. Driving in Germany is the best however!!! Have a great trip.

Thanks so much for the feedback!

[GrussGott]

I've driven both of those and I would say no, not scary. Of course it depends on what you consider scary ... personally I find HWY 1 in CA more scary in terms of height and on the edge of death and both are way more tame than the Mauna Kea if you've ever driven up there.

Here's some 3 year old pics of Sustenstrasse, not perfect but gives you an idea

[XsltAnalyst]

Your itinerary looks good, but I'd try to spend an extra day or two around Interlaken area. There is so much to do . You can easily do day trips to nearby passes easily, and don't skip Furka & Grimsel.

[brian30tw]

I drove the following passes back in 2015:

Klausen
Susten
Grimsel
Furka
Gotthard

It's been a few years, but I honestly don't remember any of them being any more scary or dangerous than any other. I thought Klausen and Gotthard were the least interesting, while Susten, Grimsel, and Furka are incredibly beautiful. Your kids might get car sick from the hairpin turns, but I can't see an issue with being scared. Good luck!

[FC]

Great, thanks!

[Sassicaia]

Since you are asking for feedback ill give the same I give pretty much all north americans who make their first trip to europe. You are squeezing WAY to much in to a short time. Your trip is going to be a blur, and spent mostly checking in, packing and traveling.

you are way better off to send 2-3 nights (3 really) 3-4 different places.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

Since you are asking for feedback ill give the same I give pretty much all north americans who make their first trip to europe. You are squeezing WAY to much in to a short time. Your trip is going to be a blur, and spent mostly checking in, packing and traveling. you are way better off to send 2-3 nights (3 really) 3-4 different places.

Although I agree that that's a lot packed into a family trip, everyone's different. And I don't think the OP said it was his first trip to Europe.

My EDs are usually short and equally jam-packed. But they're usually guy trips over a long weekend. One trip, my wife flew to Nice and joined me for a leisurely week in Provence after a friend/driving enthusiast flew home. Another was with the whole family and was, as you described, no less than two nights in any one place. But again, everyone's different and is looking for different things.

[FC]

Originally Posted by Sassicaia

Since you are asking for feedback ill give the same I give pretty much all north americans who make their first trip to europe. You are squeezing WAY to much in to a short time. Your trip is going to be a blur, and spent mostly checking in, packing and traveling.

you are way better off to send 2-3 nights (3 really) 3-4 different places.

Technically speaking, this is my 12th trip to Europe, and would be my 3rd ED trip.

I realize we are seeing a lot, but really, we are mostly doing a scenic trip through and around the Alps and southern Germany.

We are still adjusting and plan on ditching Strassbourg in favor of more tie in Interlaken.

[n3on]

Originally Posted by FC

First, an odd quirk: I drove the Grossglockner (& the Dolomites) in 2011. For some reason, Google maps will not allow me to route through it. Weird.

Google maps doesn't route through it because it's closed until may. Had the same problem a few weeks ago You can check the website: https://www.grossglockner.at/gg/en/index

Wish you another great time around here!

[karussell]

sounds like a fun scenic trip for the family. maybe i missed it but when are you planning to go? You been around the block so I imagine you got it figured out. And the kids in an M3 should have a blast! My son was always telling mommy to go faster on the on ramps.

Originally Posted by FC

So far, this is the plan having arrived a day or two before in Munich:

Day 1) BMW factory/museum/car delivery. PM Drive Munich to Salzburg via quick stop at Berchtesgaden (Eagle’s Nest) – 125 miles (3+ hours of driving total)
Day 2) Stay in Salzburg
Day 3) PM Salzburg to Hallstatt – 46 miles (1+ hours of driving)
Day 4) Stay in Hallstatt
Day 5) Early AM Hallstatt to Bolzano (via Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse and the Dolomites) – 261 miles (all day worth of scenic driving).
Day 6) Early AM Bolzano to Lake Como (via Swiz.) – 164 miles (5+ hours of driving)
Day 7) Stay in Lake Como
Day 8) Early AM Lake Como to Interlaken (via Gotthard & Susten passes) – 141 miles (4+ hours of driving)
Day 9) Interlaken to Strassbourg via blackforest (with brief stops along the way) – 211 miles (all day worth of driving)
Day 10) Strassbourg to Rothenburg ob der Tauber (stopping in Stuttgart only to visit MB & Porsche Museums) – 186 miles (3+ hours of driving)
Day 11) Stay in Rothenburg - Have break-in service done – Dealer is 2 miles away. I should be at or over 1200 miles.
Day 12) Rothenberg to Munich via Schwangau – 250 miles (under 4.5 hours total)
Day 13) Return car and fly out.

Any feedback is welcome as far as if you think I'm trying to do too much with respect to driving if you have done those routes. FWIW, I've done ED twice covering the majority of these destinations, but the Swiss passes will be new to me.

First, an odd quirk: I drove the Grossglockner (& the Dolomites) in 2011. For some reason, Google maps will not allow me to route through it. Weird.

As mentioned above, I plan on driving through the Gotthard and Susten passes. The question I have is with respect to the Gotthard Tremola (the early, historic portion). Has anyone driven through it? Is it really scary? I ask because I am driving with 9 & 11 yo's and don't want to totally freak them out. I decided to go Gotthard & Susten instead of Furka & Grimsel in large part because I read Furka can be narrow and unnerving, whereas Susten is beautiful and more flowing.

See: https://jalopnik.com/the-worlds-grea...e-fo-944904488

Map of passes here: https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6098...xsDcI9_ikKALmo

I really wanted to do Stelvio but, while cool to look at, it seems slow, out of the way, and not that great to drive.

Anyway, any experience with the above passes?

[GregSM3]

I just did an ED in Sept and drove
Susten
Grimsel
Furka
Gotthard
I agree with others CA has scarier roads. Beautiful drives do not hesitate. One piece of advice Swiss police and cameras are everywhere. Got two tix and never knew it or even thought I was speeding, so be careful on that front.

[FC]

Originally Posted by n3on

Google maps doesn't route through it because it's closed until may. Had the same problem a few weeks ago You can check the website: https://www.grossglockner.at/gg/en/index

Wish you another great time around here!

I had a feeling that's what it was. Thanks.

(just odd that other passes I would imagine are also closed do allow you to route through them)

[FC]

Originally Posted by GregSM3

I just did an ED in Sept and drove
Susten
Grimsel
Furka
Gotthard
I agree with others CA has scarier roads. Beautiful drives do not hesitate. One piece of advice Swiss police and cameras are everywhere. Got two tix and never knew it or even thought I was speeding, so be careful on that front.

Thanks! Yeah, I've heard that about Switzerland. I'll do my best to keep it slow. Being with the whole family and the nice scenery should help.

[brian30tw]

Originally Posted by FC

Thanks! Yeah, I've heard that about Switzerland. I'll do my best to keep it slow. Being with the whole family and the nice scenery should help.

You physically can't go fast on these passes, just be careful on the autobahn getting to the passes!

[Sassicaia]

Originally Posted by FC

Technically speaking, this is my 12th trip to Europe, and would be my 3rd ED trip.

I realize we are seeing a lot, but really, we are mostly doing a scenic trip through and around the Alps and southern Germany.

We are still adjusting and plan on ditching Strassbourg in favor of more tie in Interlaken.

If you've been 12 times that is a different story. Still a lot for a short period of time, but different story nonetheless.

Srassbourg is an amazing city to see BTW. One of the most idyllic looking in Europe with a very unique history if you're into that sort of thing. Its not a great city for shopping, nightlife etc You also get the added bonus of being able to drive through the black forest if youre heading north after.

I'm just a bigger believer overall in less destinations and more time in each when doing Europe. I get its a driving trip, and thats VERY important, so planning 4-6 hour drives between places is worth while.