Oil and Water Temperature different in Sport and Sport Plus!

[Automotive Goals]

I installed the Awron Gauge a few weeks ago. Very nice mod. Feels like I have a personal Dyno in the car, all the time. It actually showed me 451HP at one time and I wasn't even at red line (Car is completely stock). Awesome tool to have in the car.

One big plus with it, is that it shows you current Water and Oil temperature. I noticed that the temperature fluctuates. I usually drive the car in Sport (Throttle) Mode. Today, I realized that when you switch to Sport Plus, the water temperature drops by almost 50 Degrees and Oil Temperature drops by almost 20 Degrees. The Water temperature drops almost within 30-60 Seconds after you switch to sport plus. Oil temperature follows right after.

It is pretty incredible to see how much the Sport Plus mode changes the car characteristics. Makes sense for this to happen, so that you can push the car a lot more and not overheat. I wonder why they did not make the car keep such low temperature at all times. Does that mean, it is not good to constantly drive in Sport Plus? Is it maybe better to drive constantly in Sport Plus, to keep the temperature always low?

I went to both BMW Performance driving schools (South Carolina and California). Neither one of these schools suggested that we drive the cars in Sport Plus. They basically always said, pick whatever works best for you. Seems like a great idea to keep the car in Sport Plus, especially on the track. The temperature in California was 115 outside. Would have been a great day to tell everyone to switch to Sport Plus, to prevent overheating. Either way, not one of the cars overheated, but seems like a good advice to give people that are beating on the cars.

Just wanted to share this with everyone. If I would not have the Awron Gauge, I would not have noticed this big change between Sport and Sport Plus (in regards to temperature).

First picture is in Sport Mode.

Second photo is in Sport Plus Mode.

[MRV99]

You can see this on the stock gauges as well. This has been known for awhile.

[hellokitty]

Fuel efficiency is the reason why I don’t use sport plus all the time.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Fuel efficiency is the reason why I don’t use sport plus all the time.

Fuel what now?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by pheerIx

Fuel what now?

I'm trading the F80 in for a Prius then lol

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

I'm trading the F80 in for a Prius then

Dibs on your Whitline Subframe Inserts (whatever those are)

[Fast4d]

CAFE numbers!

bmw one liter inline 4 moto engines that make 180hp also run at 21X F at low speeds....

[Mandi90TT]

Sport+ kicks on an extra cooling fan to drop the water temp, which also drops the oil temp. It keeps this fan on almost all of the time.

In other modes, this fan only kicks on when the temp gets too high (water temp about 230, I think).

You can track the car just fine in Sport and it won't overheat. The extra cooling fan will kick on when needed. I have tracked my car in Sport, and also in Sport+ and the end of session temps are the same, because once the car starts heating up due to track use, the extra cooling fan kicks on regardless of mode.

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Fuel efficiency is the reason why I don’t use sport plus all the time.

LOLOL.

[EricSMG]

Still doesn't make sense to me although I know this is happening in my own car.

The reason it doesn't make sense is that the Thermostat is specifically designed to not let the temperate drop below a minimum threshold. It doesn't' matter how many fans you turn on, if the T-Stat is closed the fans have no affect on engine temp since the circuit is closed and water not flowing through the radiator(s).

The only way this makes sense is IF the T-Stat has two minimum threshold settings, one for normal and a (lower) one for Sport+.

I drive my car in Sport+ exclusively and I'm getting ~15mpg with a heavy foot in the city/urban environment. Pretty good for this much power, in my opinion. I was only getting 12.5mpg in the my E90M.

[Mandi90TT]

Yes, and that thermostat starts opening somewhere in the ~176 range. The extra cooling fans will take the water temp down to about 176 and then the thermostat starts closing, and the water temp won't go below that.

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Also at a guess, running hard on track will probably get the temp back to "normal."

Yes, yes it will. No matter what mode I am in, the oil stays at roughly 225 when running hard on the track.

Related note: cool party trick, after a hard session at the track, open the hood and put your hand on the air to water intercooler on top of the engine. It's nice and cool. Shocks most people that it is cool.

[Automotive Goals]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

Sport+ kicks on an extra cooling fan to drop the water temp, which also drops the oil temp. It keeps this fan on almost all of the time.

In other modes, this fan only kicks on when the temp gets too high (water temp about 230, I think).

You can track the car just fine in Sport and it won't overheat. The extra cooling fan will kick on when needed. I have tracked my car in Sport, and also in Sport+ and the end of session temps are the same, because once the car starts heating up due to track use, the extra cooling fan kicks on regardless of mode.

I dont think the fan is what cools the temps down. Ive had times I heard the secondary fan on (usually with ac on) and temps were still around 220. The weird thing is that the temps drop almost instantly when I put the car in to sport plus. My guess is that the thermostat opens up more and cools the water down. The only thing that makes sense to cool it down by almost 50 degrees in about 30-60 seconds. Even if I misheard the fan, I do not think it will cool down the water levels that quickly.

I checked these temps while on the highway driving about 80 miles an hour. So even in sport mode, it was already getting a lot of air in the engine bay.

Also I checked these temps after about 1 hour of pretty hard highway driving. Temperatures still dropped significantly.

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by Ecoce1

I dont think the fan is what cools the temps down. Ive had times I heard the secondary fan on (usually with ac on) and temps were still around 220. The weird thing is that the temps drop almost instantly when I put the car in to sport plus. My guess is that the thermostat opens up more and cools the water down. The only thing that makes sense to cool it down by almost 50 degrees in about 30-60 seconds. Even if I misheard the fan, I do not think it will cool down the water levels that quickly.

I checked these temps while on the highway driving about 80 miles an hour. So even in sport mode, it was already getting a lot of air in the engine bay.

Also I checked these temps after about 1 hour of pretty hard highway driving. Temperatures still dropped significantly.

Yeah, no. Unless I am totally mistaken, the thermostat on the M4 (and almost all modern engines) is completely mechanical, with no way to change what temperature it starts opening it.

What you are seeing is the extra cooling fan really making a difference, and a very fast difference.

[Automotive Goals]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

Yeah, no. Unless I am totally mistaken, the thermostat on the M4 (and almost all modern engines) is completely mechanical, with no way to change what temperature it starts opening it.

What you are seeing is the extra cooling fan really making a difference, and a very fast difference.

Ill try it out tonight in my garage. I should be able to hear the fan turn on, inside. Will report back.

[BMWM5NYC]

It is the fan that turns on sooner and stays on longer in sport plus mode. Same thing on the M5. You can really notice it in the winter time. If you start your car and put it into sport plus, you can hear the fan come on much earlier and it takes a lot longer for the car to warm up above the T'stat opening temperature. Also the M5 has a VARIABLE GEOMETRY PUMP which increases and decreases flow through out the cooling circuit by use of movable vanes. So in Sport plus the vanes are wide open, compared to partially opened in sport and eco modes. I would think the M3/M4 would be the same.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

the fan always turns on when you press sport+....for the beaten question of does driving in sport+ hurt the car??? Probably not, I can't imagine anyone wanting to DD in sport+ other than no rev-matching. Nonetheless the jerkiness of sport+ when you forgot what you are driving is to bucking for me. Just pay a 100 and code out rev matching. Where can you possibly accelerate that quickly without being 30 over the speed limit lol.

[F82///M]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

Yeah, no. Unless I am totally mistaken, the thermostat on the M4 (and almost all modern engines) is completely mechanical, with no way to change what temperature it starts opening it.

What you are seeing is the extra cooling fan really making a difference, and a very fast difference.

Thermostat is electronically controlled by ECU and it can make any desired temperature, it's been that way since '90s in Bmw's. It's easy to detect due to the wire connector on it. ECU heats the wire inside and controls the thermostat.

The best example is M62 engine (no sport buttons or anything similar) which had 105C to 108C (around 222F) operating coolant temp under normal driving conditions but if you'd speed up and keep rpms above 3000, coolant temperature would drop 15C to 20C, down to 190F instantly, on autobahn speeds even down to 180F.

With S55 (20 years later) we have 3 manual settings for the cooling maps but even if you drive aggressive in efficient mode, coolant temp would drop. ECU detects spirited driving conditions and opens up the thermostat.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by MRV99

You can see this on the stock gauges as well. This has been known for awhile.

Exactly. You can see the oil temp drop slightly on the analog gauge right in the dash.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

Yeah, no. Unless I am totally mistaken, the thermostat on the M4 (and almost all modern engines) is completely mechanical, with no way to change what temperature it starts opening it.

What you are seeing is the extra cooling fan really making a difference, and a very fast difference.

It is the thermostat that governs the engine operating temperature (up to the point where the cooling system capacity is reached), not the fans. And, yes, the thermostat on the S55 has an electronically variable set point.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Ecoce1

I installed the Awron Gauge a few weeks ago. Very nice mod. Feels like I have a personal Dyno in the car, all the time. It actually showed me 451HP at one time and I wasn't even at red line (Car is completely stock). Awesome tool to have in the car.

One big plus with it, is that it shows you current Water and Oil temperature. I noticed that the temperature fluctuates. I usually drive the car in Sport (Throttle) Mode. Today, I realized that when you switch to Sport Plus, the water temperature drops by almost 50 Degrees and Oil Temperature drops by almost 20 Degrees. The Water temperature drops almost within 30-60 Seconds after you switch to sport plus. Oil temperature follows right after.

It is pretty incredible to see how much the Sport Plus mode changes the car characteristics. Makes sense for this to happen, so that you can push the car a lot more and not overheat. I wonder why they did not make the car keep such low temperature at all times. Does that mean, it is not good to constantly drive in Sport Plus? Is it maybe better to drive constantly in Sport Plus, to keep the temperature always low?

I went to both BMW Performance driving schools (South Carolina and California). Neither one of these schools suggested that we drive the cars in Sport Plus. They basically always said, pick whatever works best for you. Seems like a great idea to keep the car in Sport Plus, especially on the track. The temperature in California was 115 outside. Would have been a great day to tell everyone to switch to Sport Plus, to prevent overheating. Either way, not one of the cars overheated, but seems like a good advice to give people that are beating on the cars.

Just wanted to share this with everyone. If I would not have the Awron Gauge, I would not have noticed this big change between Sport and Sport Plus (in regards to temperature).

First picture is in Sport Mode.

Second photo is in Sport Plus Mode.

And there is a reason fo this. In general terms, a hotter engine runs more efficiently from fuel consumption stand point (better combustion thermal efficiency from lower heat loss) and a cooler engine makes more power (better resistance to pre-ignition allows for more advance on timing).

[NickyC]

Sport Plus all the time for the simple fact I absolutely HATE the rev matching in 6MT, absolute worst idea ever. M1 button is first thing I hit after starting the car, Sport Plus everything.

I also don't get the "bucking bronco" thing some people complain about. I haven't experienced it a single time with my 6MT, the torque in this car is awesome!