M4 for M4GTS

[Alpine_F82]

Hi, I was wondering about trading my 15 Bmw M4 in on a M4 GTS what can I expect different from my m4 to the GTS. Is it worth it? If I got one it would sapphire black metallic.... looks like a hard color to find. Are these more rare in this color than the others?

[SYT_Shadow]

The M4 GTS is a different beast than the M4. I've driven both on the street and track and put a significant amount of miles on the GTS in both settings.

The GTS is more hardcore and significantly faster around a track than a regular M4, however, it still requires things like camber plates up front (like all M3/4s from all generations) and a full alignment before it is really happy.

The GTS did not get the best reviews when it was launched, however, I believe most of those reviews are wrong based on a few factors:
-Closet Porsche fanboys. Some people believe $130k, the going price when new of the GTS, is 'GT3 territory'. Those people are sorely mistaken, as $130k is the going price of a 911 S with some options. Once the price has dropped below $100k as is the case currently it is a no-brainer if tracking is your priority
There is nothing to do about people who have badge envy and cannot stomach a $130k BMW. Cars should be evaluated based on their merits and insecurities regarding prestige and image are best left to psychologists.
-Setup. As the car has actual track coilovers instead of EDC on steroids (like an M3 CS, or GT3) it has to be setup. Do not expect to run one on 'street' height settings and comfortable compression/rebound and be pleasantly surprised. If turning knobs is too much work, stay away from the GTS
-Mod-itis. This is a serious sickness, which makes people utter statements like 'I can mod a stock M3 to be faster than the GTS for half the price'. Well, this is true about any car. If you spend enough money on a Civic it will eventually also be faster than a GTS around a track. And who cares? Modding the hell out of things destroys your resale value and requires lots of labor to install/remove all that crap, as no one wants to buy a modded car. The GTS on the other hand is pretty much ready to go after you install camber plates and will eventually appreciate -as all generations of CSLs/GTSs have.

[Alpine_F82]

As crazy as this might sound I will be dailying this car. To most people they like a car eith soft suspension etc I don’t I’m the total opposite I like the car rough and hard to deal with on bumps I like the feeling of driving a race car on the road it keeps me more focused to be honest and at 80-90k this car is a steal. The new CS has launched but bmw said it then self the cs is supposed to be between the m comp and the gts so I see the CS prices going down big time for awhile when those move down you’ll see the gts slightly go up and I think in a couple years the gts will be back at stock honestly, I’ve noticed the last gts did that also.

I like the case that it’s just shy of 500hp and stock m4 is 425hp so a bit of increase and which is what I want. I love the look of it too spoiler on back front lip the wheels the roll cage etc. Not only will I be dailying this car I will be tracking a lot too I’ll trailer it just to save miles here and there I don’t want the highest mileage gts in country I only put on 7k miles a year and I switch up from a couple of cars everyday. I’m looking at buying in a couple of weeks to months depending on finding the right car. If anyone wants to sell a Black Sapphire Metallic GTS please pm me.

[aBMWfan]

One question, do you need back seat still?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by M4BimmerChris

As crazy as this might sound I will be dailying this car. To most people they like a car eith soft suspension etc I don’t I’m the total opposite I like the car rough and hard to deal with on bumps I like the feeling of driving a race car on the road it keeps me more focused to be honest and at 80-90k this car is a steal. The new CS has launched but bmw said it then self the cs is supposed to be between the m comp and the gts so I see the CS prices going down big time for awhile when those move down you’ll see the gts slightly go up and I think in a couple years the gts will be back at stock honestly, I’ve noticed the last gts did that also.

I like the case that it’s just shy of 500hp and stock m4 is 425hp so a bit of increase and which is what I want. I love the look of it too spoiler on back front lip the wheels the roll cage etc. Not only will I be dailying this car I will be tracking a lot too I’ll trailer it just to save miles here and there I don’t want the highest mileage gts in country I only put on 7k miles a year and I switch up from a couple of cars everyday. I’m looking at buying in a couple of weeks to months depending on finding the right car. If anyone wants to sell a Black Sapphire Metallic GTS please pm me.

I don't think you're crazy. I sometimes daily my E90 M3 with 3 way suspension and 700/1000 springs. I also drive it to tracks 7-10h away and manage just fine, even with fixed back seats.

For the prices this car sells at now it is really a steal!

I'll be buying a CS soon as I already have a pretty modded E90 but would have bought the GTS had I not built the e90 before the news BMW would bring it over here!

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by M4BimmerChris

As crazy as this might sound I will be dailying this car. To most people they like a car eith soft suspension etc I don’t I’m the total opposite I like the car rough and hard to deal with on bumps I like the feeling of driving a race car on the road it keeps me more focused to be honest and at 80-90k this car is a steal. The new CS has launched but bmw said it then self the cs is supposed to be between the m comp and the gts so I see the CS prices going down big time for awhile when those move down you’ll see the gts slightly go up and I think in a couple years the gts will be back at stock honestly, I’ve noticed the last gts did that also.

I like the case that it’s just shy of 500hp and stock m4 is 425hp so a bit of increase and which is what I want. I love the look of it too spoiler on back front lip the wheels the roll cage etc. Not only will I be dailying this car I will be tracking a lot too I’ll trailer it just to save miles here and there I don’t want the highest mileage gts in country I only put on 7k miles a year and I switch up from a couple of cars everyday. I’m looking at buying in a couple of weeks to months depending on finding the right car. If anyone wants to sell a Black Sapphire Metallic GTS please pm me.

Well, you sound like the exact right buyer for the GTS then. I think you'll be happy with it.

It's a great time to buy them as their value is in the tank right now. Not just because you'll be able to buy them cheap, but also because at these prices, who cares about putting miles on them?

I tried to trade mine in on a McLaren (FG so you won't want it) and the offers are so bad that I'm just going to keep it

[Alpine_F82]

Originally Posted by aBMWfan

One question, do you need back seat still?

Nope

[Alpine_F82]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Well, you sound like the exact right buyer for the GTS then. I think you'll be happy with it.

It's a great time to buy them as their value is in the tank right now. Not just because you'll be able to buy them cheap, but also because at these prices, who cares about putting miles on them?

I tried to trade mine in on a McLaren (FG so you won't want it) and the offers are so bad that I'm just going to keep it

I’m kinda curious to what they offered for trade in?

[Alpine_F82]

I’ve also considered getting a Ferrari 360 convertible manual which would be cool but it’s kinda old

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The M4 GTS is a different beast than the M4. I've driven both on the street and track and put a significant amount of miles on the GTS in both settings.

The GTS is more hardcore and significantly faster around a track than a regular M4, however, it still requires things like camber plates up front (like all M3/4s from all generations) and a full alignment before it is really happy.

The GTS did not get the best reviews when it was launched, however, I believe most of those reviews are wrong based on a few factors:
-Closet Porsche fanboys. Some people believe $130k, the going price when new of the GTS, is 'GT3 territory'. Those people are sorely mistaken, as $130k is the going price of a 911 S with some options. Once the price has dropped below $100k as is the case currently it is a no-brainer if tracking is your priority
There is nothing to do about people who have badge envy and cannot stomach a $130k BMW. Cars should be evaluated based on their merits and insecurities regarding prestige and image are best left to psychologists.
-Setup. As the car has actual track coilovers instead of EDC on steroids (like an M3 CS, or GT3) it has to be setup. Do not expect to run one on 'street' height settings and comfortable compression/rebound and be pleasantly surprised. If turning knobs is too much work, stay away from the GTS
-Mod-itis. This is a serious sickness, which makes people utter statements like 'I can mod a stock M3 to be faster than the GTS for half the price'. Well, this is true about any car. If you spend enough money on a Civic it will eventually also be faster than a GTS around a track. And who cares? Modding the hell out of things destroys your resale value and requires lots of labor to install/remove all that crap, as no one wants to buy a modded car. The GTS on the other hand is pretty much ready to go after you install camber plates and will eventually appreciate -as all generations of CSLs/GTSs have.

I agree with this. The GTS with camber plates and suspension set up for track it is truly an amazing machine. It got all kinds of crap reviews, but none of them took the time to "play" with the car the way it was intended.

My only issue with the GTS as a street/track car is the difficulty to make it a great street and track car simultaneously. IOW, when setup for the track it is almost unenjoyable on the street. When setup for the street its almost unenjoyable for the track. To go from one to the other, it requires a lift and several hours of time. You could set it for in-between and have mediocre both, but why? The other issue for me was the turbo. This is primarily a personal thing with my taste for linear feel of natural aspiration. The GTS does have tons of torque and power in a nonlinear delivery (lag) and once you get used to this delivery all is good. I just had difficult getting use to it. This was my issue with the GTS, I wanted a truly street/track car. So I sold it and got a 991.2 GT3. Which I think is (biased obviously) the best there is for that purpose. Its not as obnoxious as the GT3RS and I can still enjoy it on the street and rip up a track with a mind blowing experience. It, like most factory cars, needs a bit more camber but for some reason on the GT3 on the street with added camber, its not very noticeable. This and add in a manual and the sound of that thing winding up to 9k is something that will ruin all other cars. And, lets face it, the GTS sounds like it farts and gurgles. Which some my like, I didn't.

I still miss the GTS and might consider adding it back into my garage, but it will be as a track toy that has the reliability of a production car with insane ability for the track. I think it would be a super competitive car to run as a time trial car. And, I think it will rocket in value... eventually. I just have a hard time seeing these cars as investments. I want to drive them. There are much better investment opportunities out there than cars.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Cadaver

I agree with this. The GTS with camber plates and suspension set up for track it is truly an amazing machine. It got all kinds of crap reviews, but none of them took the time to "play" with the car the way it was intended.

My only issue with the GTS as a street/track car is the difficulty to make it a great street and track car simultaneously. IOW, when setup for the track it is almost unenjoyable on the street. When setup for the street its almost unenjoyable for the track. To go from one to the other, it requires a lift and several hours of time. You could set it for in-between and have mediocre both, but why? The other issue for me was the turbo. This is primarily a personal thing with my taste for linear feel of natural aspiration. The GTS does have tons of torque and power in a nonlinear delivery (lag) and once you get used to this delivery all is good. I just had difficult getting use to it. This was my issue with the GTS, I wanted a truly street/track car. So I sold it and got a 991.2 GT3. Which I think is (biased obviously) the best there is for that purpose. Its not as obnoxious as the GT3RS and I can still enjoy it on the street and rip up a track with a mind blowing experience. It, like most factory cars, needs a bit more camber but for some reason on the GT3 on the street with added camber, its not very noticeable. This and add in a manual and the sound of that thing winding up to 9k is something that will ruin all other cars. And, lets face it, the GTS sounds like it farts and gurgles. Which some my like, I didn't.

I still miss the GTS and might consider adding it back into my garage, but it will be as a track toy that has the reliability of a production car with insane ability for the track. I think it would be a super competitive car to run as a time trial car. And, I think it will rocket in value... eventually. I just have a hard time seeing these cars as investments. I want to drive them. There are much better investment opportunities out there than cars.

Well thought out post. And I like your username, it reminds me of Quake III Arena

The best setup for the GTS for the road/track thing would be all the way lowered (which isn't that low) and with compression/rebound settings specific to the street and the track. That way it takes 15 minutes to switch between them.
This is how I use the MCS 3W Remote suspension on my track car and just changing that it is perfectly acceptable on the street, even with 700/1000 springs which are much harder than what the GTS brings.
Notwithstanding all this, the car would be easier to use for dual duty if it had EDC on steroids. Hopefully the next GTS/CSL has that.

I find the GTS to be a pussycat like all Ms I've ever driven on track, albeit significantly more powerful. The delivery is quite good 'for a turbo engine'... it is not a NA engine for sure. Same as the sound... anyone who says a turbo car sounds nice needs their hearing checked, because 100% of them sound like ass. Some are a bit better than others, but instead of splitting hairs it's easier to say they all sound horrible.

The GTS is a great car and I'll always feel sorry it got bad reviews from people that did not understand what it is. Hopefully they'll address the suspension in the next generation and give us EDC on steroids which is what people want for mixed duty use.

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The GTS is a great car and I'll always feel sorry it got bad reviews from people that did not understand what it is. Hopefully they'll address the suspension in the next generation and give us EDC on steroids which is what people want for mixed duty use.

Totally agree as well. I hated the reviews for the GTS when it came out. I found it funny that they made fun of the water injection in the GTS, but thought it was ingenious in the Porsche GT2RS. Its the same thing. I mentioned my love for the GT3, but even that isn't a good comparison as the GT3 is a solid $50k more before ADM. I usually appreciate Chris Harris' reviews as he seems a bit more objective, but I don't think he gave the M4 GTS a fair shot during his comparison with the GT3RS and the Benz GTR. I get it. Its BMW version of track ready, road legal, street car. And so were the others. But lets face it the GT3RS is twice the price! All in all, I think the M4 GTS is an absolute amazing car and is quite tricked out with some cool stuff. I don't think you could find a car with MSRP of $135k that could hang with it on track... assuming streetable. Possibly a GT350 or Z06/Z07

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Cadaver

Totally agree as well. I hated the reviews for the GTS when it came out. I found it funny that they made fun of the water injection in the GTS, but thought it was ingenious in the Porsche GT2RS. Its the same thing. I mentioned my love for the GT3, but even that isn't a good comparison as the GT3 is a solid $50k more before ADM. I usually appreciate Chris Harris' reviews as he seems a bit more objective, but I don't think he gave the M4 GTS a fair shot during his comparison with the GT3RS and the Benz GTR. I get it. Its BMW version of track ready, road legal, street car. And so were the others. But lets face it the GT3RS is twice the price! All in all, I think the M4 GTS is an absolute amazing car and is quite tricked out with some cool stuff. I don't think you could find a car with MSRP of $135k that could hang with it on track... assuming streetable. Possibly a GT350 or Z06/Z07

I really struggled as well when Chris compared the E92 GTS to the... 997.2 GT3 RS 4.0. Those cars are not, in the very least, in the same market.

If you need to compare the M4 GTS against something comparable use the 991 GT3, and even that could be questioned. GT3 RS are in another price range entirely.

But anyway, glad you're enjoying the 991.2 GT3 in stick shift. Having NA+6MT nowadays is almost impossible so good job securing one!

[Alpine_F82]

Not gonna buy them as investments this will be my daily/track car. But I’m looking at a car that I see at its bottoms so we won’t see it go to 30k. I think from 135k msrp to 75-90k it’s a steal but it won’t bother me if it doesn’t go up in value or drop even a little. I just like the car and I’m getting a 135kmsrp car for 75-90k which is a steal in my case. And I always wanted the old m3gts but I saw prices so I believe a 2020 M4 price vs a 2016 M4 GTS I think I’m gonna go with the gts plus the m4’s will be going down in value and gts will hold. So it’s worth it to me. I honestly might settle on colors but not for sure yet still gonna look for a black sapphire metallic.

[RandyC54]

I have no issues driving the GTS on the street. I understand it's not ideal for a luxury cruiser, but I did several road trips with the car to get break-in miles, and it was comfortable enough and an occasion. As for performance on track, I have not tracked mine, but Pat spent a few bucks on camber plates and racing seats...and he's turning 2:05's at VIR in the intermediate group, which is in the heart of GT3 times in the advanced group. That's also several seconds faster than the quickest GT4 times in the 2:07-08 range. At these prices, it's a steal. (I'm not just saying that because mine is for sale, either)