Track/Street Suspension suggestions

[apexM4]

So a little background:
In 2014ish I got the itch for learning the ropes of HPDE and tracking my at the time 2012 Evo X. I found Ryan gates through the internet and was able to purchase the first set of 311rs spec JRZ RS1s (outside of his tailored production cars). In short I hated them, clunking and noises were unbearable and just didn’t live up to the “perfect street/track” name they were advertised as. I spoke to him and as awesome person he is we worked out a deal to upgrade into the newer 2 way RS Pros. Also got in contact with Bryan at JRZ to help dial them in at Sebring. I was doing about 3-4 track days a year and ultimately It was an awesome experience at the later stages of ownership but I have a bit of a sour taste left from the headaches I had to go through.

So here I am learning this new platform (2015 M4) and I’m really interested in trying something other than JRZ. I loved how versatile the RS Pros could be driving around town and as some of you may know they handled bumpy Sebring like champs! In the street they behaved wonderfully, sure a little stiff but I don’t mind that feel at all. So im looking for some suggestions into a proper street/mainly track focused suspension set up that will stay around the $5k range with 2 way adjustability maybe 3 way. I have researched a bit and so far have been drawn to Moton, MCS, KW 3 way, Nitron or just suck it up and go back to JRZ?

I know there may be some other threads discussing this but they all seem a bit dated and I know the technology has shifted. Also what spring rates do these cars like or are popular starting points?

Thanks for your inputs!

[Montaver]

Get MCS, talk to Phil at bimmerworld. 600/900 is a very common starting rate. I have a set of MCS2WNR with 500/800 ready to go on my car shortly.

[bimmerboyE92]

Originally Posted by apexM4

So a little background:
In 2014ish I got the itch for learning the ropes of HPDE and tracking my at the time 2012 Evo X. I found Ryan gates through the internet and was able to purchase the first set of 311rs spec JRZ RS1s (outside of his tailored production cars). In short I hated them, clunking and noises were unbearable and just didn’t live up to the “perfect street/track” name they were advertised as. I spoke to him and as awesome person he is we worked out a deal to upgrade into the newer 2 way RS Pros. Also got in contact with Bryan at JRZ to help dial them in at Sebring. I was doing about 3-4 track days a year and ultimately It was an awesome experience at the later stages of ownership but I have a bit of a sour taste left from the headaches I had to go through.

So here I am learning this new platform (2015 M4) and I’m really interested in trying something other than JRZ. I loved how versatile the RS Pros could be driving around town and as some of you may know they handled bumpy Sebring like champs! In the street they behaved wonderfully, sure a little stiff but I don’t mind that feel at all. So im looking for some suggestions into a proper street/mainly track focused suspension set up that will stay around the $5k range with 2 way adjustability maybe 3 way. I have researched a bit and so far have been drawn to Moton, MCS, KW 3 way, Nitron or just suck it up and go back to JRZ?

I know there may be some other threads discussing this but they all seem a bit dated and I know the technology has shifted. Also what spring rates do these cars like or are popular starting points?

Thanks for your inputs!

Although the MCS stuff is super nice. For dual duty, TC Kline coilovers are king and highly developed for street/track use. Ask TC for the dual duty settings, set it and forget it!

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Get MCS, talk to Phil at bimmerworld. 600/900 is a very common starting rate. I have a set of MCS2WNR with 500/800 ready to go on my car shortly.

Love to hear your experience once installed, considering this exact set up

[F80Speed77]

Get the Ground Control Coilover Kit if you are looking for the best Street/Track setup. Save the rest of the money for a square wheel/tire setup and proper brake pads.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

Love to hear your experience once installed, considering this exact set up

Sure thing. Assuming all the timings work out and everything is here on time they will be going on next Monday then straight to the track for a 3 day shakedown 😀

[apexM4]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Get MCS, talk to Phil at bimmerworld. 600/900 is a very common starting rate. I have a set of MCS2WNR with 500/800 ready to go on my car shortly.

So im really leaning towards this route but i really liked the ease of 'on the fly' adjustments having the remote canisters so im going to look into it. Kinda turned off by the fact that MCS breaks everything up into a lego set that you have to buy and piece separately :/

Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92

Although the MCS stuff is super nice. For dual duty, TC Kline coilovers are king and highly developed for street/track use. Ask TC for the dual duty settings, set it and forget it!

I checked out your posts on this and they sound like a great solution. Gonna dive a little deeper into them see what they have to offer. Thanks!

Originally Posted by F80Speed77

Get the Ground Control Coilover Kit if you are looking for the best Street/Track setup. Save the rest of the money for a square wheel/tire setup and proper brake pads.

I also read up on your build and progress through time attack, interesting read and seems like they are working well for you. Ill def. be adding these to the list.

Im curious how everyone feels about KW 3 way clubsports and motons. Havent seen much input on the forums about them. I've been trying to find more info on the moton 2 way remote canister. Are they still the good company they once were?

[bimmerboyE92]

Originally Posted by apexM4

So im really leaning towards this route but i really liked the ease of 'on the fly' adjustments having the remote canisters so im going to look into it. Kinda turned off by the fact that MCS breaks everything up into a lego set that you have to buy and piece separately :/


I checked out your posts on this and they sound like a great solution. Gonna dive a little deeper into them see what they have to offer. Thanks!


I also read up on your build and progress through time attack, interesting read and seems like they are working well for you. Ill def. be adding these to the list.

Im curious how everyone feels about KW 3 way clubsports and motons. Havent seen much input on the forums about them. I've been trying to find more info on the moton 2 way remote canister. Are they still the good company they once were?

Also look at M3post for feedback on TCK coilovers. TC doesn't market on the forums as much as they use to. TCK's have been known to go 100,000 street miles before needing a rebuild. Also, most average track drivers will not go any faster whether they are on TCKs or MCS.

[Spun Crankhub]

I've got some KW Clubsport 3way's sitting in my garage waiting to go on. I am interested to see how they feel between street and track settings.

[Continental02]

I had a great experience with AST 5200s and would absolutely recommend them. From what I understand, they are very similar to the Moton system as it's the same company. They felt superb on the street, and the car felt like it was on rails when on the track. The remote reservoirs are a must if you drive on more than one track, or do a wet track day.

Even one click on the remote reservoirs would make a massive difference. I found the two-ways were perfect for me to fine-tune the car as I don't have enough suspension knowledge to get the use out of three-ways. Something to keep in mind is that most people do more harm than good when getting into a three-way adjustable suspension unless you have a team helping you set the car up.

[apexM4]

Originally Posted by Continental02

I had a great experience with AST 5200s and would absolutely recommend them. From what I understand, they are very similar to the Moton system as it's the same company. They felt superb on the street, and the car felt like it was on rails when on the track. The remote reservoirs are a must if you drive on more than one track, or do a wet track day.

Even one click on the remote reservoirs would make a massive difference. I found the two-ways were perfect for me to fine-tune the car as I don't have enough suspension knowledge to get the use out of three-ways. Something to keep in mind is that most people do more harm than good when getting into a three-way adjustable suspension unless you have a team helping you set the car up.

Very true, I’ll check these out.

[nicknaz]

How about the oem height adjustable spring kit and aftermarket front camber plates, if you want to keep it simple

[SYT_Shadow]

I've had JRZ 2 way and found the clicking and noises to be unbearable. I got rid of them, moved to MCS and haven't looked back since.

A nice advantage of MCS is you can get track settings established by a race driver who only races BMW M cars for your setup vs fighting to make your own setup.
The 2WNR on the E9X cars adjusts in your trunk for the rears and the engine bay for the fronts, it's pretty easy to access.
5k gets you a 2WNR setup which is very solid.

I've used TCK on a track E92. I've disliked every Koni shock based kit I've ever used and this was no exception. It's a cheap shock and this is clear from driving it on the street or on the track.

[apexM4]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

How about the oem height adjustable spring kit and aftermarket front camber plates, if you want to keep it simple

Unfortunately i dont have EDC shocks, if not i'd probably give the stock set up a bit more of a chance. Im gonna do a couple track days stock just to see the progression, but definitely set on a stout 2way/3way coilover.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I've had JRZ 2 way and found the clicking and noises to be unbearable. I got rid of them, moved to MCS and haven't looked back since.

A nice advantage of MCS is you can get track settings established by a race driver who only races BMW M cars for your setup vs fighting to make your own setup.
The 2WNR on the E9X cars adjusts in your trunk for the rears and the engine bay for the fronts, it's pretty easy to access.
5k gets you a 2WNR setup which is very solid.

I've used TCK on a track E92. I've disliked every Koni shock based kit I've ever used and this was no exception. It's a cheap shock and this is clear from driving it on the street or on the track.

Yup, i was lucky and didnt have too many issues with my JRZ two ways but the RS1's were unbareable, i thought something in the car was broken. do you know if the F8x MCS 2WNR is also adjustable from the trunk in the rear? Im leaning to the remote version with MCS just because of that, seems like it'd be a pain to get back there on the F8x platform. Also i would be doing some adjustments b/w streetdriving, sebring, the FIRM, auto x, etc.

Originally Posted by Spun Crankhub

I've got some KW Clubsport 3way's sitting in my garage waiting to go on. I am interested to see how they feel between street and track settings.

Would love to hear some feedback on these!! When do you plan on mounting them?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by apexM4

Unfortunately i dont have EDC shocks, if not i'd probably give the stock set up a bit more of a chance. Im gonna do a couple track days stock just to see the progression, but definitely set on a stout 2way/3way coilover.

Apparently (from old Albert B interviews posted on these forums back in 2014-2015) the passive dampers are configured to be between sport and sport+ of the edc dampers.

Also If you don’t have front camber plates and you have some good experience, my $0.02 is you’ll just be wasting your front tire outer shoulder in your first couple of track days. I took the stock pss on my car to the cords in 3 dry and 1 wet DE

Edit: I didn’t see it discussed earlier, but another thing to toss in the ring is that kw 3 way clubsport is (I think) the oem suspension for m4 gts. You could potentially use those settings developed for that platform, if a start point is a key thing of interest to you. I was eyeing these before i sold my car

[apexM4]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Apparently (from old Albert B interviews posted on these forums back in 2014-2015) the passive dampers are configured to be between sport and sport+ of the edc dampers.

Also If you don’t have front camber plates and you have some good experience, my $0.02 is you’ll just be wasting your front tire outer shoulder in your first couple of track days. I took the stock pss on my car to the cords in 3 dry and 1 wet DE

Edit: I didn’t see it discussed earlier, but another thing to toss in the ring is that kw 3 way clubsport is (I think) the oem suspension for m4 gts. You could potentially use those settings developed for that platform, if a start point is a key thing of interest to you. I was eyeing these before i sold my car

Oh well thats def. good to know! ive been on the fence about getting some camber plates, i guess it wouldnt be a waste since they would translate right over to the MCS' if i went that route. As far s the KW3ways, yes! thats exactly my thoughts and why im so interested in them. Hoping for someone with some experience with them to chime in. I do know the valving is a bit different so wonder how they feel first hand.

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by apexM4

Oh well thats def. good to know! ive been on the fence about getting some camber plates, i guess it wouldnt be a waste since they would translate right over to the MCS' if i went that route. As far s the KW3ways, yes! thats exactly my thoughts and why im so interested in them. Hoping for someone with some experience with them to chime in. I do know the valving is a bit different so wonder how they feel first hand.

Camber plates will pay for themselves quickly, but you will need to get the correct spring size adapter when going from stock to coilovers/MCS - Think it's only around $150 edit $62.98

[adc]

Early stages of Ohlins RT here. My first track day one them will be WGI at the end of July. So far on the street they are very bearable - 3 clicks from softest is where I settled on and it works great.

I also have the new Vorschlag camber plates, early days but a bit more road noise transmitted than my previous Ground Control.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by apexM4

Yup, i was lucky and didnt have too many issues with my JRZ two ways but the RS1's were unbareable, i thought something in the car was broken. do you know if the F8x MCS 2WNR is also adjustable from the trunk in the rear? Im leaning to the remote version with MCS just because of that, seems like it'd be a pain to get back there on the F8x platform. Also i would be doing some adjustments b/w streetdriving, sebring, the FIRM, auto x, etc.

The MCS 2WNR on the F8X is adjusted from the top of the shock, but it's eye -to-eye in the rear so you have to snake your hand into the wheel well top after jacking the car up. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

A M4 GTS I help set up moved from the KW 3W to the MCS 3W, large positive difference. I'd do a MCS 2WNR before a KW 3W

[elite53]

I have had the KW Clubsport 3ways on my car for a couple weeks now. So far I'm very happy with them. They don't have any weird clunking noises and respond very well to setting changes. They ride nice on the street, not overly stiff and KW's recommended settings are really good. I added a bit more rebound stiffness than they suggested and I couldn't be happier. Haven't been on track yet but I don't foresee any issues there either. In the past I've had AST 5100's, KW DDC's, and FEAL coilovers. The Clubsports are light years ahead of those others as they should be being nearly twice as expensive. I'm not sure what else I can say about them? I would recommend them to anyone looking for a street/track set up.

[M2 GT]

Just offering personal experience in case anyone is considering Ohlins. Last year I tracked my M2C with the original setup from Ohlins. In low-speed corners, I felt the car still rolled a bit much. After doing some research I came across Barry at 3DM motorsport and we decided on a custom setup with stiffer springs and valving to match those springs. The car feels amazing on track now, especially in mid-corner where the dampers are not in motion. For reference, the original springs were 9kg/mm and 19kg/mm, and the new setup is with 12kg/mm and 22kg/mm. I know some complained about the original springs to be too stiff but I never found that to be the case; it was just right for the street and too soft for the track. A few of my friends who are racing in Europe with their M2s also agree with this. I plan on writing a detailed post after some more testing, but for anyone who is considering Ohlins I recommend giving Barry a call.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by M2 GT

Just offering personal experience in case anyone is considering Ohlins. Last year I tracked my M2C with the original setup from Ohlins. In low-speed corners, I felt the car still rolled a bit much. After doing some research I came across Barry at 3DM motorsport and we decided on a custom setup with stiffer springs and valving to match those springs. The car feels amazing on track now, especially in mid-corner where the dampers are not in motion. For reference, the original springs were 9kg/mm and 19kg/mm, and the new setup is with 12kg/mm and 22kg/mm. I know some complained about the original springs to be too stiff but I never found that to be the case; it was just right for the street and too soft for the track. A few of my friends who are racing in Europe with their M2s also agree with this. I plan on writing a detailed post after some more testing, but for anyone who is considering Ohlins I recommend giving Barry a call.

The original R&T rear spring rate on the F8x was higher than your new 22 kg/mm rear rate.