Suspension Setup for Track Days

[gum2012]

Hey everyone! I have a 2018 F82 with a comp package I bought 2 years ago. I caught the track bug last year and have been tracking the hell out of it for the past year and am now doing 12-15 events a year .

Since then I've added a dedicated set of tires/wheels RE-71/APEX ACP 18x10 Square. Then added Ground Control camber plates with 2.75 alignment in the front. I added a JB4 tune, high temp fluid, and HAWK HPS brake pads.

I am at the point where I am having a blast. The car is amazing for the price and am able to keep up with anything, not a McLaren or GT3+. But I want to improve the handling to lower it and increase stability throughout turns and naturally heard upgrading the suspension is the way to do it.

I pretty much don't drive it unless it's driving in the mountain or a track day. So I am willing to sacrifice DD comfort because it's not my DD. I am able to hit very consistent speeds and push the car to my comfort level and hit consistent lap times.

Figuring out which and what suspension/upgrade to use is where I am kind of lost. I've read every thread I could find on here, watched tons of YouTube videos, and the other forum about suspensions and my local shops are recommending MCS but I had some questions which I hope you all can help with:

1) Based on the limited info you know would you recommend doing a suspension setup or doing something simple like springs before it?
2) Anyone with MCS setup recommend it?
3) Any pitfalls I should be aware of ?

Thanks again and for all of the content to help me get to where I am now.

[F80Speed77]

Are you sure you have HPS Pads? They are turrible for track day.

[gum2012]

Originally Posted by F80Speed77

Are you sure you have HPS Pads? They are turrible for track day.

Hawk HPS pads. They work great for me! I feel I have the same break capabilities as the GT3s out there.

[SYT_Shadow]

I've had multiple MCS and JRZ setups. MCS is where it's at, it's just fantastic.

I would remove the JB4 piggyback. That does not belong on a car that goes to the track. If you feel like you must tune, get the ESS stage 1 software or the BM3 and then torque limit all gears by 20%

Springs are a complete waste of money. Leave it stock or get a proper track suspension.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I've had multiple MCS and JRZ setups. MCS is where it's at, it's just fantastic.

I would remove the JB4 piggyback. That does not belong on a car that goes to the track. If you feel like you must tune, get the ESS stage 1 software or the BM3 and then torque limit all gears by 20%

Springs are a complete waste of money. Leave it stock or get a proper track suspension.

+1 - I’ve had MCS, JRZ, Moton, and TCK setups on different BMWs. I’m currently running MCS 2WR setups on my f82 and f22, and a JRZ setup on my e92. I’d highly recommend MCS setups for the track and street. Ohlins TTX and Tractive (Non-active) 2/3-way setups also have nice options for track suspension setups. However, you can’t go wrong with MCS and BW.

[gum2012]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I've had multiple MCS and JRZ setups. MCS is where it's at, it's just fantastic.

I would remove the JB4 piggyback. That does not belong on a car that goes to the track. If you feel like you must tune, get the ESS stage 1 software or the BM3 and then torque limit all gears by 20%

Springs are a complete waste of money. Leave it stock or get a proper track suspension.

Thank you!!! Why do you not believe the piggyback belongs on the track?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by gum2012

Thank you!!! Why do you not believe the piggyback belongs on the track?

On the track more people should use either stock or torque limited maps.

The ECU has enough trouble managing track conditions for you to feed it incorrect data to increase the power.

I ran a jb4 on my X5 (obviously no track time) and after 40k miles I was so tired of its issues that I uninstalled it at a random gas station and threw it away

[gum2012]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

On the track more people should use either stock or torque limited maps.

The ECU has enough trouble managing track conditions for you to feed it incorrect data to increase the power.

I ran a jb4 on my X5 (obviously no track time) and after 40k miles I was so tired of its issues that I uninstalled it at a random gas station and threw it away

Makes sense I use the most basic map 1 I think. I’m not a heavy user at all. Thanks for the info though!

[M2 GT]

Just offering personal experience in case you are considering Ohlins. Last year I tracked my M2C with the original setup from Ohlins. In low-speed corners, I felt the car still rolled a bit much. After doing some research I came across Barry at 3DM motorsport and we decided on a custom setup with stiffer springs and valving to match those springs. The car feels amazing on track now, especially in mid-corner where the dampers are not in motion. For reference, the original springs were 9kg/mm and 19kg/mm, and the new setup is with 12kg/mm and 22kg/mm. I know some complained about the original springs to be too stiff but I never found that to be the case; it was just right for the street and too soft for the track. A few of my friends who are racing in Europe with their M2s also agree with this. I plan on writing a detailed post after some more testing, but for anyone who is considering Ohlins I recommend giving Barry a call.

Originally Posted by gum2012

Hey everyone! I have a 2018 F82 with a comp package I bought 2 years ago. I caught the track bug last year and have been tracking the hell out of it for the past year and am now doing 12-15 events a year .

Since then I've added a dedicated set of tires/wheels RE-71/APEX ACP 18x10 Square. Then added Ground Control camber plates with 2.75 alignment in the front. I added a JB4 tune, high temp fluid, and HAWK HPS brake pads.

I am at the point where I am having a blast. The car is amazing for the price and am able to keep up with anything, not a McLaren or GT3+. But I want to improve the handling to lower it and increase stability throughout turns and naturally heard upgrading the suspension is the way to do it.

I pretty much don't drive it unless it's driving in the mountain or a track day. So I am willing to sacrifice DD comfort because it's not my DD. I am able to hit very consistent speeds and push the car to my comfort level and hit consistent lap times.

Figuring out which and what suspension/upgrade to use is where I am kind of lost. I've read every thread I could find on here, watched tons of YouTube videos, and the other forum about suspensions and my local shops are recommending MCS but I had some questions which I hope you all can help with:

1) Based on the limited info you know would you recommend doing a suspension setup or doing something simple like springs before it?
2) Anyone with MCS setup recommend it?
3) Any pitfalls I should be aware of ?

Thanks again and for all of the content to help me get to where I am now.

[gum2012]

FYI I ended up getting the MCS 1 way and it's a dream. I highly recommend it to anyone!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by gum2012

FYI I ended up getting the MCS 1 way and it's a dream. I highly recommend it to anyone!

Excellent choice. Enjoy!

[gum2012]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Excellent choice. Enjoy!

Thanks! Probably later this year I'll throw in a half cage, race seats, and aero... and get a 08 911 to drive my GF around town .

[krisa9977]

There is much better option then MCS. New Kw 3a exr, but you need to order them from Kw motorsport in Germany and it takes some time to make them.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by krisa9977

There is much better option then MCS. New Kw 3a exr, but you need to order them from Kw motorsport in Germany and it takes some time to make them.

And your statement “much better than” is backed up by what?

[NYG]

Originally Posted by krisa9977

There is much better option then MCS. New Kw 3a exr, but you need to order them from Kw motorsport in Germany and it takes some time to make them.

Curious why you think KW is better?

[krisa9977]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

And your statement “much better than” is backed up by what?

Put on youtube "BTG Nurburgring", and you'll see that all fastest cars using KW or Nitron suspension. Never seen anyone with MCS with decent lap time.

World top teams, who race GT4 class use KW exr. It was developed especially for GT4 cars by top motorsport professionals. I tried them both on e46m3, I liked KW competition 2 way much better then MCS. Exr is the next step after KW 2 way competition.

[Kelse92]

Well the difference between those KW exr and MCS 1-ways is probably at least 10k in cost jump. I'm sure those are great, but most of the other KW offerings are not as good and difficult to get serviced anywhere besides KW. For the average track-junkie a JRZ or MCS (1-way or 2-way) if you want a step up is more than plenty, affordable, and easily serviceable.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by krisa9977

Put on youtube "BTG Nurburgring", and you'll see that all fastest cars using KW or Nitron suspension. Never seen anyone with MCS with decent lap time.

World top teams, who race GT4 class use KW exr. It was developed especially for GT4 cars by top motorsport professionals. I tried them both on e46m3, I liked KW competition 2 way much better then MCS. Exr is the next step after KW 2 way competition.

Because MCS is an american company.

In the US, at least one team that runs the M4 GT4 that comes with Ohlins TTX would prefer to run the MCS. So there's that

Saying that all the fastest Ring times are done with KW suspension is as useless as saying all the fast WGI times are done with MCS suspension. Yeah, evidently no one runs KW Comp in the US because you get better support from MCS which is also based in the US. Same thing for KW and Europe.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by krisa9977

Put on youtube "BTG Nurburgring", and you'll see that all fastest cars using KW or Nitron suspension. Never seen anyone with MCS with decent lap time.

World top teams, who race GT4 class use KW exr. It was developed especially for GT4 cars by top motorsport professionals. I tried them both on e46m3, I liked KW competition 2 way much better then MCS. Exr is the next step after KW 2 way competition.

As SYT_Shadow stated, basing it on just N’ring track times doesn’t make one brand “much better” than another.

Factory-built GT4 race cars designed to compete in series around the world typically do not come with KW. Why would an individually-built GT4 class race car not use true KW Motorsport dampers, and at least 3-ways? Unless it’s a series that forces everyone to run a specific damper.

It’s your own personal opinion, not one supported by actual data, that your “much better than” statement is based on. You made an extremely bold statement about KW vs. MCS, which is what I called you out on, and it appears you haven’t even tried the KW Exr damper. Saying KW has a new line that competes with MCS would’ve been fine. Just curious, which MCS dampers did you try on your (?) e46 M3?

There are other companies that make comparable dampers to MCS 2/3/4WR dampers; however, I’d never say MCS dampers are the “best dampers ever”. Final selection of high-end dampers comes down to personal preference and level of support. The level of support for MCS dampers in the US is higher than support for KW Motorsport dampers.

[krisa9977]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

As SYT_Shadow stated, basing it on just N’ring track times doesn’t make one brand “much better” than another.

Factory-built GT4 race cars designed to compete in series around the world typically do not come with KW. Why would an individually-built GT4 class race car not use true KW Motorsport dampers, and at least 3-ways? Unless it’s a series that forces everyone to run a specific damper.

It’s your own personal opinion, not one supported by actual data, that your “much better than” statement is based on. You made an extremely bold statement about KW vs. MCS, which is what I called you out on, and it appears you haven’t even tried the KW Exr damper. Saying KW has a new line that competes with MCS would’ve been fine. Just curious, which MCS dampers did you try on your (?) e46 M3?

There are other companies that make comparable dampers to MCS 2/3/4WR dampers; however, I’d never say MCS dampers are the “best dampers ever”. Final selection of high-end dampers comes down to personal preference and level of support. The level of support for MCS dampers in the US is higher than support for KW Motorsport dampers.

And who you are to make such assumptions about what I drove and what I didn't drive? It appears to me that you are another amateur sunday driver who has less then zero racing experience and has no idea on how to set up race cars.

[krisa9977]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Because MCS is an american company.

In the US, at least one team that runs the M4 GT4 that comes with Ohlins TTX would prefer to run the MCS. So there's that

Saying that all the fastest Ring times are done with KW suspension is as useless as saying all the fast WGI times are done with MCS suspension. Yeah, evidently no one runs KW Comp in the US because you get better support from MCS which is also based in the US. Same thing for KW and Europe.

Do you have a link with their qualifying results to compare their lap times with other gt4 teams? I'm curious to see that.

Some teams in Europe also runs motons in some tracks. I'm not saying it's bad, I guess its a meter of preference. I know that mcs has good quality components. But top teams still runs KW, sharing their data with KW engineers who always present at the any motorsport event for their support.

You can work with top teams running Porsche GT3 Cup car and come up with very good product, but this suspension will not work on BMW. You always need feedback from fast drivers to set it up properly.

If nobody tested street BMW M4 with coilovers installed, with professional racing driver who can provide a feedback, how do you know what you got? For example, KW Competition 2 way works perfect with E46 M3, but for E92 M3 you need Competition 3 way or Clubsport 3 way. KW 2 way competition just doesn't work on this specific car the way it should work. May be in some flat track you won't see the difference, but not the Nordschlife.

The most difficult part to come up with settings that would work better with one specific model. If mcs done enough testing and come up with a set for M4 GT4, it's good. But I seriously doubt that mcs has done as many tests as KW or Ohlins at least for BMW or Porsche Motorsport.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by krisa9977

Do you have a link with their qualifying results to compare their lap times with other gt4 teams? I'm curious to see that.

Some teams in Europe also runs motons in some tracks. I'm not saying it's bad, I guess its a meter of preference. I know that mcs has good quality components. But top teams still runs KW, sharing their data with KW engineers who always present at the any motorsport event for their support.

You can work with top teams running Porsche GT3 Cup car and come up with very good product, but this suspension will not work on BMW. You always need feedback from fast drivers to set it up properly.

If nobody tested street BMW M4 with coilovers installed, with professional racing driver who can provide a feedback, how do you know what you got? For example, KW Competition 2 way works perfect with E46 M3, but for E92 M3 you need Competition 3 way or Clubsport 3 way. KW 2 way competition just doesn't work on this specific car the way it should work. May be in some flat track you won't see the difference, but not the Nordschlife.

The most difficult part to come up with settings that would work better with one specific model. If mcs done enough testing and come up with a set for M4 GT4, it's good. But I seriously doubt that mcs has done as many tests as KW or Ohlins at least for BMW or Porsche Motorsport.

In the US, the M4 GT4 comes limited to the Ohlins TTX 2 way suspension. So the two teams that run M4 GT4s: Bimmerworld (3 cars) and Turner (2 cars) both run the same Ohlins suspension.
I don't know how the sanctioning bodies work in Europe, but here the M4 GT4 comes as a package and the brakes and suspension are predetermined.

Two professional drivers, James Clay and Devin Jones, have both driven my M3 CS with MCS 3 way suspension. James did the suspension setup on my M3 CS and E90 stroker track car.
I have direct feedback from a professional race driver of a M4 GT4 that they would prefer to run MCS on the GT4 and wish the rules allowed the MCS suspension, but they do not.

Others may feel differently but I value feedback from someone who has been racing BMW M cars for the past 20 years a lot more than 'Brand X is much better than Brand Y' arguments.

I didn't mention Porsche anywhere and would prefer to not discuss that garbage. This is a BMW forum.