RS4 owner needs input on making jump to M3

[B7RS4]

Hi guys, I'm going to try and not make this a super long post. I was about to pull trigger on a E90 M3 2 years ago but ended up deciding on a RS4 after snow storm hit and realized AWD was important. I love the RS4 , great all round car and pure sleeper and low key. I'm at the point where I am going to start modding it with downpipes, exhaust and tune which will cost about $5500 installed. This will definitely wake up the car and make that NA V8 roar, but power gains might be only 30-40hp. Real power is with a supercharger an that is roughly $15-20k with maintenance prep , blower and install. I will not not be doing a supercharger on the RS4. And with minimal gains on almost $6k, I want to know what my options are.

Which brings me to the E9x M3. It seems supercharger is like $6k and from what I read you can pretty much SC stock motor. My question is, what maintenance/prep is needed before going with SC? I know the rod bearings are an issue. But from what I can out together, supercharger, exhaust and tune can be done for around $10k? What am I missing? What would I need done maintenance wise before starting these mods and NOT blow up engine? I believe there is a 650hp SC, I think that would be enough!

My end goal would to be to have an 'ultimate driving machine' daily driver with lots of power. I think this can be more economically achievable with the M3 platform than the RS4. If I'm going to start dropping money on real performance mods, I want the best bang for buck and enjoy the ride.

Any input would be appreciated. I only have biased RS4 input on their group forums, I want the M3 community input. I don't have experience with the M3 but I know both M3 and RS4 are amazing cars. I'm looking at the performance and mods angle. Thanks in advance

[pbonsalb]

Supercharger is $7300 plus a day of labor and you should do rod bearings if they have not yet been done, which might be $1000 in parts plus another day of labor. Probably some other deferred maintenance to do on the 7-12 year old car as well.

M3 is not anywhere near as good as the RS4 in snow. I drive mine all winter in NH with snow wheels, but it’s not great.

If you learn how to work on cars, you can save a lot on labor.

[SYT_Shadow]

I've been through a lot of blizzards in an M3 with winter tires. Unless you are going up steep grades, winter tires >> AWD

The RS4 is also a cool car for sure.

Besides the supercharger you need rod bearings and some other bits and bobs. The ESS G1+ kit is probably what you're looking for.
I've driven a few ESS supercharged cars, 600whp is stupid fast

[pbonsalb]

AWD with winter tires is better than RWD with winter tires.

AWD with summer tires in snow is stupid and dangerous.

AWD with all seasons sometimes works OK but is nothing like AWD with snows.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

AWD with winter tires is better than RWD with winter tires.

AWD with summer tires in snow is stupid and dangerous.

AWD with all seasons sometimes works OK but is nothing like AWD with snows.

I generally agree, but AWD with all seasons will corner and brake as poorly as RWD with all seasons. It'll accelerate better but I've never had an accident due to insufficient acceleration

[New2Roundel]

I live in the Philly area, just like the OP. We don't get much snow and what we do get is easily handled with snow tires. I wouldn't let the possibility of getting 3-6 inches of snow twice a year impact the car decision. Unless you drive to New England in the winter.

I agree with the recommendation that rod bearing get done before or during the s/c install. Otherwise, I'm not aware of anything special that need to be done. That said, like any car where aftermarket F/I is added to a N/A engine, you want to make sure any leaks or worn out parts are taken care of as part of the install.

[Longboarder]

You might find yourself chasing traction issues with a supercharged M3. Don't get me wrong they are fun, but coming from an RS4 with no traction issues, you will have a challenge in cooler/inclement weather.

Maybe try a DCT e9X M3 with front cat removal and stage 2 tune (some tunes have e85 options). A lot of cars are seeing near 400 wheel hp and it will cost maybe $2k all-in. Then some good tires like PS4S and you have a much lighter car than your RS4 and will feel like a rocket over 6k rpm.

[shimmy23]

I seriously considered the b7 before the E90 and they drive very differently. Nothing beats the balance of a bmw. When pushed reasonable hard into corners the E90 felt more nimble and stable. I found myself feeling the "roll" of the b7 and it just wasn't as responsive. Both cars have awesome engines and I loved the rs4 exhaust!

That's my quick opinion.... I used to be a die hard VAG enthusiast too.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I generally agree, but AWD with all seasons will corner and brake as poorly as RWD with all seasons. It'll accelerate better but I've never had an accident due to insufficient acceleration

Accelerate around a corner with AWD and all seasons and the front drive will help pull the car around. With RWD and all seasons you may slide off the road. Of course, you can drive more slowly with RWD to reduce that likelihood, but you will never have the benefit of drive traction in the front wheels to keep you on course or pull you back on course.

I do agree AWD does not brake or coast any better than RWD.

[B7RS4]

Thanks guys. I'm not concerned about the snow like New2Roundel mentioned. We get snow a few times a year, usually one or 2 days most with snow on ground then all cleared up. I can always get a winter set of tires and my driving in snow will be very minimal.

I love the RS4, its a great all round machine. But i'm also not tracking the car, not canyon ripping either. I'm a power whore and love having max potential to rip and run when i can. Car will be a daily driver and spirited driving when able. I figure if I'm going to put the money in performance mods, i don't want to feel i need more. And same money can be put in another car and reach much higher performance. So the platform is critical. I love the AWD but it's not critical now like when i made decision 2 years ago. But 6sp is a must.

Both cars pretty much share same cost of standard maintenance. I'm thinking SC for ultimate power gain, so what would need to be done to have piece of mind and not blow up motor? From everything i read you can SC stock motor pretty safely. Is the ESS G1 upgradable similar to the VF as i have read? Which supercharger is considered most 'safe'? I figure, SC first then i trickle in other mods like exhaust, DP, suspension...etc. I'm an enthusiast like you all, when is the car ever done??

[SYT_Shadow]

ESS has the most kits out there and they can even go to the track. It is a stock-like performance, just more of it.
I'd run the G1+ directly along with a catless bimmerworld xpipe for most power.

Rod bearings are the only necessary parts which must be done regardless.

[pbonsalb]

As has been noted, you won’t be able to put the power down in the lower gears with street tires. I have 285/30/18 Conti EC Sport at 30 psi and can light them up from a roll, and my motor is N/A with bolt on mods. Previously had 295/35/18 and same problem. To have a chance at hooking off the line with a supercharger, you would need RA1 or 888R R compound tires.

My next car will be AWD. I want to put the power down.

If you just do highway pulls, you won’t have an issue.

[akkando]

It's probably worth noting that a super charger puts more stress in the first main bearing, or so I've read. Not much to be done about it though.


Have you considered an f80 with a tune instead? I think prices have come down and e90 m3 prices not going down much. Cheaper to get performance out of the f80.

[pbonsalb]

And you will get way more torque with the turbos than from a centrifugal supercharger. Will have lower gear traction issues.

[B7RS4]

I didn't think of the putting power down factor and not just spin out. I do more city and road driving than highways. I did think of the F80 too, I think I just like the V8 roar at high RPM. Being in the RS4 and previously about to get E90 M3. A guy I talked to at the gym has a F80 tuned, exhaust..etc , before COVID he was going to take me for a ride and let me drive it but everything closed up and haven't seen him since. He said he's pushing over 500 hp with just tune. I know that's feasible with turbos . Could be something else to consider.

[Shrike360]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

As has been noted, you won’t be able to put the power down in the lower gears with street tires. I have 285/30/18 Conti EC Sport at 30 psi and can light them up from a roll, and my motor is N/A with bolt on mods. Previously had 295/35/18 and same problem. To have a chance at hooking off the line with a supercharger, you would need RA1 or 888R R compound tires.

My next car will be AWD. I want to put the power down.

If you just do highway pulls, you won’t have an issue.

Man, I'm running 285/35/18 PS4Ss in the back of mine and have no wheel spin hammering it in 1st gear. And I have test pipes, intake, pulley and tune. It will spin on aggressive/fast shifts, but otherwise...

[GORDON.M3]

Driven the E92 M3 in blizzard conditions without an issue.

Michelin X-ice does wonders for these cars during storms.

Only thing that was damaged was my front plastic grill and stupid OEM felt undertray (which I replaced with an aluminium one) when I hit a really hard ice bank. The front bumper survived it no issues.

10W60 in -30 Celcius isn't a problem either. Add Liquimoly Ceratec and have the car warm up for 3-5 minutes before moving. Blackstone UOAs came back clean as a whistle.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Shrike360

Man, I'm running 285/35/18 PS4Ss in the back of mine and have no wheel spin hammering it in 1st gear. And I have test pipes, intake, pulley and tune. It will spin on aggressive/fast shifts, but otherwise...

Maybe you don’t have as much power as you think — a lot of cars don’t make what their owners think. Or maybe you have stock traction control that does not allow spin.

Or maybe you are making 400 rwhp but live in a hot area and the P4S are sticky enough. I don’t live in a hot area and have not tried P4S but have experienced traction issues with PSS as well as the EC Sport.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Maybe you don’t have as much power as you think — a lot of cars don’t make what their owners think. Or maybe you have stock traction control that does not allow spin.

Or maybe you are making 400 rwhp but live in a hot area and the P4S are sticky enough. I don’t live in a hot area and have not tried P4S but have experienced traction issues with PSS as well as the EC Sport.

I didnt even have traction issues like you describe in my old e92 with the G Power kit on PSS tires.

Now my old M4 with Bm3 and e85 on PS4S... unruly..

[pbonsalb]

Supercharger does not really add any off the line power. Your 6 psi kit probably hit 1 psi at 4000 rpm. And if you are l leaving stock traction control on, you won’t get any wheel spin.

[amrazM]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I didnt even have traction issues like you describe in my old e92 with the G Power kit on PSS tires.

Now my old M4 with Bm3 and e85 on PS4S... unruly..

It’s because of the bottom end hit of torque, that’s what spins tires on the f8x cars. My g power m3 spins 2nd hard from a roll with ps4s

[Longboarder]

Maybe another car?

If manual trans is a must maybe 991.1 Carrera 4S? Doesnt even need mods to trap near 120 with unlimited grip. Even a cheaper regular S which is RWD will grip better than a lot of AWD cars.