Loose Nuts

[ejm3]

Specifically the lug nuts on the rear drivers side wheel.

It happened when I switched over to my winter wheels and tires (steel wheels from Tire Rack).

It happens every year when I switch and it's always the rear drivers side, even though I change the actual wheel that gets installed there.

Normally I just have to tighten them up after driving on it a couple times and I'm good to go for the winter.

But this year they keep loosening up and its driving me crazy. They get loose enough where the car drives very poorly so they aren't just a little loose.

Any ideas?

[Lester]

When you say nuts, you mean bolts - unless you've converted to using studs with nuts.

Perhaps the standard length BMW wheel bolt isn't quite long enough for the steel wheels? You might try a longer wheel bolt.

[dtla1]

Yeah, should always re-torque after about 100 miles or so. But as far as re-loosening over and over, could be bolts too short, or maybe some crazy differential material temperature changes (torquing inside heated garage, loosen after outside in cold)? Differential material might not be it though

[Lester]

This on the Turner Motorsport section on wheel spacers.

"To be considered safe, a 12x1.5 wheel bolt needs 10mm (6.5 turns) of thread engaged."

Also, check the wheels to make sure the holes haven't been damaged.

[ejm3]

Yes I meant bolts not nuts.
And they are the factory bolts that came with the car.

[Lester]

They came with the car, and they were meant to be used by the BMW alloy wheel. When you put a winter tire and wheel on, made of steel, it is probably not a BMW wheel, and therefore may have a different requirement for length of lug bolt.

You would be able to tell if the bolt has at least 6.5 turns of thread before you have to torque spec it tight. If it has fewer than 6 turns, then the bolt is too short and you would look for a non standard length wheel bolt. These are available and required when spacers are used.

I wouldn't think the car is currently safe to drive until you determine what the issue is.

Good luck!

[519.E82]

Since its only the one side personally i would say its most likely not the wheels themselves, i would switch the lug bolts to the driver side and see if the problem follows. If yes, new bolts. If no, id try rotating the wheels over. If still no, id be looking at the hub.

[Lester]

The problem as I understand it happens when he puts the steel wheels/winter tires on in the fall. The problem exists on just the driver's side. So the same lug bolts go into the same hub when the summer wheels and tires without any problems.

Ergo, one might suspect the problem has something to do with the wheels, specifically on the drivers side.

I'm interested to see if he can determine if the bolts have at least 6-1/2 turns before tightening as per Turner Motorsport.

Another possibility is that the lug bolts have been over torqued at one point, and are starting to fail. They might be starting to turn to plasticine, and unable to sustain tension. This is doubtful however, if they are factory lug bolts. The metal in German spec lug bolts would not do this.

I wish the OP could provide pictures, this may help to figure it out.

[tracer bullet]

I'm on board w/ the too short idea as well.

However, I'd consider cleaning them and where they go in. Make sure there's not like a gallon of anti-seize on them. Unlikely but just in case.

[Lester]

You shouldn't use anti-seize compound on wheel bolts. I agree, that could also be a contributor.

[Gangplank]

Saw the topic and thought it was referring to all of us forum members....

[ejm3]

I literally cannot drive the car more than a mile or two without the bolts loosening up to where the car drives like crap.
Always drivers rear wheel.
I’m going to have to take it in as it’s undrivable and I have no idea why.

[tracer bullet]

That is just so odd. I wonder if one or more is stripped.

I'm guessing you are using a torque wrench and even if it's not accurate you still have a feel for it?

How about the wheels themselves, any chance they need a hubcentric spacer and you don't have one, and that is initiating some movement? Any cracks in the wheel itself?

Another thought, is each wheel assigned a corner (i.e. tires are directional and wheels are different widths)? Or are they truly swappable as in all wheels the same size and tires not directional? If each wheel is assigned a corner at the moment, you could try swapping them around. At least left / right sides. It's OK to run treads backwards for a while, it's not ideal but it won't make you crash or anything. See if it stays at that corner or moves with the wheel itself. Might help narrow it down.

[dtla1]

Could be the hub itself I guess might be wonky, but that would be on the extreme side.

I would say try to clean the hub and wheel surfaces well to try to see if there might be something not letting the wheel sit/mate correctly.

[Gangplank]

Are the steel wheels hub centric?

[Thunderguts]

I would say that something is stopping the wheel from seating all the way. As others have said, a poorly fitting hub-centric ring could make you feel the wheel is snug when you torque the bolts, but after driving the ring loosens and removes tension from the lugs.

A loose or warped rotor might also cause you to think your wheel is snug and torqued, but after driving the rotor wobbles or re-seats and removes tension from the lugs. I would remove everything from the hub and inspect.

What about this...ice or salt get between the hub and rotor. After driving, the ice melts or salt dissolves leaving a gap and loosening tension on the lugs. I'm really grasping at straws here...

[BikeNHV]

Also suspecting something related to the hub. Seems like you've narrowed it down to that corner, since it does not follow a specific wheel.

If it matters, I run steel wheels every winter (on year #5 now) with the same set of factory lug bolts as my stock alloys and have never had an issue. Torque to spec once, that's it.
They are, however, OE BMW steel wheels. (16's which would not clear your 135i brakes but fit my 128i just fine, I think they were meant for an e46).

Once you find the root cause (which you should, do NOT band-aid this), I'd suggest buying a new set of lug bolts all around. And if the TireRack steel wheels are not hubcentric, get hub rings.

[WDE82]

Take the brake rotor off and clean up the sandwiched surfaces including the hub and inside of wheels with a stiff wire brush.

Clean the lug bolts themselves with wire brush also and try to get the threaded holes if possible.

Also please post what winter wheels you have and the method you use to torque them on.

You probably should end up doing the star pattern in this location several times to get it flat. I'd probably go 30 ft*lbs star, 60 ft*lbs star, then 90 ft*lbs 2-3 times in a star.

If you were to torque one bolt to 90 ft*lbs then torque the opposing one and never go back around again, you could end up with a loose wheel pretty easily. I always go around at least twice and start with a light torque in a star pattern to seat it.

[ejm3]

Dealership called and they believe the steel rim is the problem.

I guess it’s possible but seems like it’s the drivers rear no matter which wheel I put there.
I checked Tire Rack and they want $158 for a new steel wheel plus TPM. Seems pricey.

Also he told me that the recommendation for steel wheels is to re-torque them every 100 miles and for that and other reasons BMW no longer recommends steel wheels for winter tire packages.

[WDE82]

Link exactly what steel wheel you bought/would buy again to replace.

[ejm3]

Originally Posted by WDE82

Link exactly what steel wheel you bought/would buy again to replace.

This:

https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Whee...kageFlow=false

[BikeNHV]

Are they hubcentric to BMW hubs? Seems logical that they would make them so, given the 5x120 pattern. But I guess there's a possibility they aren't.

And regarding re-torquing every 100 miles...maybe re-torque after the first 100 miles, not every 100.

I'm still stumped that it's specific to a corner, even though you've tried multiple wheels on that same corner. I'm worried that you'll be disappointed with the result after buying 1 new steel wheel.