Should I consider a used F85 with a Dinan Badge?

[Abstracted]

I'm considering a used F85 with a Dinan badge.

To get a Dinan badge, you have to buy several Dinan parts to add up to 10 points. Then you qualify for the badge:

https://www.dinancars.com/dinan-badge/

But, as far as I can tell, it's got only the axle back exhaust (worth 3 points). And the dealer hasn't disclosed any other of the Dinan upgrades.

I'd be buying remotely, so I can't check it out myself.

Should I stay away?
Or should I have it taken to a BMW dealer or indie for a PPI?
If so, could they tell if whatever was installed on it affected longevity/durability?

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by Abstracted

I'm considering a used F85 with a Dinan badge.

To get a Dinan badge, you have to buy several Dinan parts to add up to 10 points. Then you qualify for the badge:

https://www.dinancars.com/dinan-badge/

But, as far as I can tell, it's got only the axle back exhaust (worth 3 points). And the dealer hasn't disclosed any other of the Dinan upgrades.

I'd be buying remotely, so I can't check it out myself.

Should I stay away?
Or should I have it taken to a BMW dealer or indie for a PPI?
If so, could they tell if whatever was installed on it affected longevity/durability?

Regarding the Dinan question, someone else might have more specific feedback. But Because of my own recent personal experience, I want to share this with you. Because I learned that even if it is a BMW CPO at a dealer, there can be plenty wrong with it that can be hidden or missed.

I recently purchased a '17 X5M with 43K miles. Out of factory warranty but CPOed at a local reputable dealer. I am covered by the CPO warranty and a CPO wrap warranty, along with other warranties like tire and wheel, dent repair, etc. All of the stuff that I hestitated to buy but glad I did buy.

Mine blew a main seal about 150 miles into ownership and the brakes were on the verge of needing to be replaced. The dealer repaired the seal and another minor oil leak issue. After I had it evaluated by an independent BMW performance shop and pushed a little bit, they replaced all rotors and pads under sales and/or CPO warranty. My B&O dash speaker was loose, they tightened that too. And there was a tiny dent that they repaired. There is a potential issue with one or more of my vents blowing cold air, and they will address that too if it proves to be a reality. They tightened up the rear hatch because I mentioned a creaking sound, which ended up being the rear cargo cover moving around but nonetheless... All while I drove a brand new M440 as a loaner car which is the benefit of buying a CPO.

My dealership story is a longer one. There is even more to it than I've shared. But to boil it down, even if it's a CPO from a reputable BMW dealer, get it evaluated by a local BMW performance shop that is well-versed in M cars, ideally the one you're buying. If you sense something wrong, you're probably right and then some.

I recommend buying a CPO and has plenty of time/mileage left on the CPO warranty so that you can shake out any of the issues like I was able to. Good luck!

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Northeastern X5M

Regarding the Dinan question, someone else might have more specific feedback. But Because of my own recent personal experience, I want to share this with you. Because I learned that even if it is a BMW CPO at a dealer, there can be plenty wrong with it that can be hidden or missed.

I recently purchased a '17 X5M with 43K miles. Out of factory warranty but CPOed at a local reputable dealer. I am covered by the CPO warranty and a CPO wrap warranty, along with other warranties like tire and wheel, dent repair, etc. All of the stuff that I hestitated to buy but glad I did buy.

Mine blew a main seal about 150 miles into ownership and the brakes were on the verge of needing to be replaced. The dealer repaired the seal and another minor oil leak issue. After I had it evaluated by an independent BMW performance shop and pushed a little bit, they replaced all rotors and pads under sales and/or CPO warranty. My B&O dash speaker was loose, they tightened that too. And there was a tiny dent that they repaired. There is a potential issue with one or more of my vents blowing cold air, and they will address that too if it proves to be a reality. They tightened up the rear hatch because I mentioned a creaking sound, which ended up being the rear cargo cover moving around but nonetheless... All while I drove a brand new M440 as a loaner car which is the benefit of buying a CPO.

My dealership story is a longer one. There is even more to it than I've shared. But to boil it down, even if it's a CPO from a reputable BMW dealer, get it evaluated by a local BMW performance shop that is well-versed in M cars, ideally the one you're buying. If you sense something wrong, you're probably right and then some.

I recommend buying a CPO and has plenty of time/mileage left on the CPO warranty so that you can shake out any of the issues like I was able to. Good luck!

In my experience, even when I have bought a CPO, I have examined the car closely as well as the CPO inspection report. I have also found a difference when it comes to CPO. The best ones, IMHO are where the car was leased, serviced, and then CPO'd at the same (reputable) dealer with low mileage. I was able to get the details of the car from the initial order itself as well as every single service record at the dealer. I was impressed by the fact that the dealer as part of the CPO process had replaced all the major wear and tear items I can think of.

If it were me, I'd not get the F85 sight unseen, what you don't know and what the dealer can't tell you can only hurt you in the end...

[silentm]

Dealers aren't the best to perform PPI. Speaking from personal experience.

Bought an M5 from a board member in West Bend which appears to have one family that owns a chain of various dealership. Han an inspection performed and ended up flying over there to buy the car. From what I saw, I knew what needed to get done and was ok with and bought the car and drove it to SoCal.

Well when I pulled the plenum off to change plugs, I saw something no one would want to see on the v10. Long story short, Bmw tech's at the dealer are no different that valley parking. This is where they get their training wheels removed and once they develop a skill at cars or company's expense they move and open and independent shop.

[blown99]

Originally Posted by Abstracted

I'm considering a used F85 with a Dinan badge.

To get a Dinan badge, you have to buy several Dinan parts to add up to 10 points. Then you qualify for the badge:

https://www.dinancars.com/dinan-badge/

But, as far as I can tell, it's got only the axle back exhaust (worth 3 points). And the dealer hasn't disclosed any other of the Dinan upgrades.

I'd be buying remotely, so I can't check it out myself.

Should I stay away?
Or should I have it taken to a BMW dealer or indie for a PPI?
If so, could they tell if whatever was installed on it affected longevity/durability?

Interesting. When I purchased mine locally it Had a Dinan badge, But as far as I know only had the tuner which I removed, and axel back exhaust. Only 6 points according to that. I suppose it could have had Intake and something else and it was removed before being traded in but who knows. If there are any engine pics post here, might be able to see if it has tuning module

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by blown99

Interesting. When I purchased mine locally it Had a Dinan badge, But as far as I know only had the tuner which I removed, and axel back exhaust. Only 6 points according to that. I suppose it could have had Intake and something else and it was removed before being traded in but who knows. If there are any engine pics post here, might be able to see if it has tuning module

Does the F85 come with a factory Dinan tune through a joint venture of some sort between BMW and Dinan? My independent shop mentioned something about this and there is a Dinan sticker somewhere inside my engine compartment that someone else mentioned. (Car is in the shop or I would take a picture) Mine is a CPO from a BMW dealer and totally stock, I have done nothing to it other than cosmetics.

[m3fuz]

Originally Posted by blown99

Interesting. When I purchased mine locally it Had a Dinan badge, But as far as I know only had the tuner which I removed, and axel back exhaust. Only 6 points according to that. I suppose it could have had Intake and something else and it was removed before being traded in but who knows. If there are any engine pics post here, might be able to see if it has tuning module

Just like seemingly everything else, you can buy fake Dinan badges on eBay. Someone could’ve just done that and slapped it on the car too.

[KLR X5M]

Unless it has dinan intake and piggyback it never would have qualified. I doubt someone removed and sold the intake and piggyback but left exhaust if they were parting out. In any event the dinan piggyback if very mild tuning wise. Id not worry about it. Like others have said. Probably fake badges

[Abstracted]

Originally Posted by blown99

If there are any engine pics post here, might be able to see if it has tuning module

OK pic attached of the only engine photo I've got.

[Abstracted]

I've since reached out to Dinan, and they're running the VIN through their database to see if anything pops up.

I've also reached out to my salesman to see if he can find any other evidence of additional Dinan parts.

[Abstracted]

Originally Posted by m3fuz

Just like seemingly everything else, you can buy fake Dinan badges on eBay. Someone could’ve just done that and slapped it on the car too.

Yeah, you could be right!

[Abstracted]

Originally Posted by FCX5

In my experience, even when I have bought a CPO, I have examined the car closely as well as the CPO inspection report. I have also found a difference when it comes to CPO. The best ones, IMHO are where the car was leased, serviced, and then CPO'd at the same (reputable) dealer with low mileage. I was able to get the details of the car from the initial order itself as well as every single service record at the dealer. I was impressed by the fact that the dealer as part of the CPO process had replaced all the major wear and tear items I can think of.

If it were me, I'd not get the F85 sight unseen, what you don't know and what the dealer can't tell you can only hurt you in the end...

Originally Posted by silentm

Dealers aren't the best to perform PPI. Speaking from personal experience.

Bought an M5 from a board member in West Bend which appears to have one family that owns a chain of various dealership. Han an inspection performed and ended up flying over there to buy the car. From what I saw, I knew what needed to get done and was ok with and bought the car and drove it to SoCal.

Well when I pulled the plenum off to change plugs, I saw something no one would want to see on the v10. Long story short, Bmw tech's at the dealer are no different that valley parking. This is where they get their training wheels removed and once they develop a skill at cars or company's expense they move and open and independent shop.

It's not CPO, so no warranty.

And yeah, I agree. I guess if I want to move forward with the sale, I should have it sent to a BMW indie shop for a PPI. And if they're an authorized Dinan dealer, that would be even better.

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by Abstracted

It's not CPO, so no warranty.

And yeah, I agree. I guess if I want to move forward with the sale, I should have it sent to a BMW indie shop for a PPI. And if they're an authorized Dinan dealer, that would be even better.

Check this out - https://www.richardsmotorcars.com/de...5j0y83192.html

This one is local to me. Depending on the colors you like, it looks nice and could still be under factory warranty. (In service date was probably late 2017 and they have 4Y/50K right?)

No idea what kind of wheels and tires, looks like it might be lowered? Other than that, great year and mileage with the 2-tone interior.

Depending on how involved you want to get with this purchase, I have two great BMW performance shops that are about 35 minutes away from this dealer. I am very particular and I'm happy to help you out if I can.

[Abstracted]

OK, more info!!

I called a BMW dealer that was listed as a service provider on the Carfax.

They have in their notes that it had at the time a Stage 1 tune!

[silentm]

Originally Posted by Abstracted

It's not CPO, so no warranty.

And yeah, I agree. I guess if I want to move forward with the sale, I should have it sent to a BMW indie shop for a PPI. And if they're an authorized Dinan dealer, that would be even better.

You'd want an old school Porsche tech to inspect the car. Lol


They may find more things than necessary.

I recent sold my f10 M5 with 38k miles and the new owner had me take the car to A well knows place in SoCal OC.

Car got on the lift and they inspected holding a flash light for leaks or damage. So anyone can do this. They they read codes, well anyone can do this and can also clear them. Then they interpret the codes and then I had to explain that Bmw has a thing called ghost codes. Irregularity in voltage may store a code, but that does not mean that there is an issue. It's a car after all. They check tires, liquids, brake pads, belts. Pretty much anything visual.

They also don't unbolt or take parts off or anything close. If you'r lucky, they may check all panels with a gauge to make sure it wasn't re-sprayed.

[blown99]

Originally Posted by Abstracted

OK pic attached of the only engine photo I've got.

Bummer, so dark can't see if tuner is still present

[Abstracted]

Originally Posted by blown99

Bummer, so dark can't see if tuner is still present

OK I'll have the salesman take some photos.

Where should he point the camera?

[blown99]

Originally Posted by Abstracted

OK I'll have the salesman take some photos.

Where should he point the camera?

Module installs under the plastic cowl here. Hard to see but with some good pics we can see

[Abstracted]

Honest question:

If it does have the Stage 1 still installed, should I move forward with the sale?

Or is a used F85 with a Dinan tune something I should definitely avoid?

At this point, there's no longer a warranty on any of it, and I'm concerned about reliability and longevity. But I can easily get a PPI done.

Carfax shows regular oil changes.

[Abstracted]

Another question:

With an exhaust and tune, should the price be discounted or should they charge more than average?

[silentm]

Originally Posted by Abstracted

Another question:

With an exhaust and tune, should the price be discounted or should they charge more than average?

If it was EAG you'd pay premium. Traditionally, car loses value as soon as you replace oem with aftermarket even though It's Dinan.

So about 16/17 years ago Dinan and BMW of North America didn't see eye to eye and independent dealers who were authorized to service Dinan cars were no longer able to due to "tools" (Dinan software) not being available.

So slowly dealer lost certification with Dinan and never got it back. You do have some independent Bmw shops that are certified by Dinan, but they are hard to find. Goes back to me saying that dealer technicians are fresh off their training and have little on hand experience.

I had a personal experience with my Dinan badged e39 M5 back in 05, which I still have and the dealer pretty much wiped the software to perform an emission update, wiping the tune. I got the car back with SES light on and the service advisor just shrugged his shoulder that there is nothing they can do. In short, I almost went to jail.

Performance parts from known manufactures are a plus, but used marketplace does not care. I am not a Dinan follower although my car can be considered an S3, but people will pay premium to acquire used Dinan parts specially if it's discontinued.

[Abstracted]

Originally Posted by silentm

If it was EAG you'd pay premium. Traditionally, car loses value as soon as you replace oem with aftermarket even though It's Dinan.

Performance parts from known manufactures are a plus, but used marketplace does not care. I am not a Dinan follower although my car can be considered an S3, but people will pay premium to acquire used Dinan parts specially if it's discontinued.

I appreciate the feedback. I've got more info on the truck in my next post...