CarandDriver: 135i in battle! (GXP,370Z,RX8)

BForbes · 02-23-2009, 11:50 AM

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/compar...est__1/(page)/1

amsfoto · 02-23-2009, 11:57 AM

Having drove the Z, I can appreciate it's balance and tight handling....but god it feels so slow compared to the 135i. Maybe if you got used to the lack of torque and it's powerband it would be alright, but driving them back to back the 135i is my obvious choice.

gnpower · 02-23-2009, 12:04 PM

The things that killed bmw vs nissan was exterior styling which is a matter of preference and pricing. I honestly like the 135 styling vs the Z and not because I own a 1.

The powertrain chart doesn't make sense to me. both cars are identical for the 0-60 and 0-100 and bmw lost at 0-130, but yet nissan is 2 mph faster than the bimmer. Huh?

Good read though.

Red135 · 02-23-2009, 12:07 PM

Whaaa...it isn't as pretty as a 3-series. Give me a break. And, a comparably optioned 335i is $6000 more than a 1-series. How is that similarly priced?

guardianangel3290 · 02-23-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

So what’s holding it back? All hands agreed that the 1-series isn’t as pretty as its big brother. The proportions aren’t as elegant. Once again, there were remarks about the tight driver’s footwell, cramped rear seats, and uptown pricing

this is bullshit. theyre stacking the 135i against a car thats not even in the compro. It's all completely subjective and half the stuff they said in the above paragraph arent even parameters of the competition.
i agree about the handling but idk how they can get a 370 to match the acceleration of the 135i. i test drove a 370z a few days ago and it felt just like a 350z (slow as balls)

gnpower · 02-23-2009, 12:09 PM

270 @5200 for the Z vs 300@1400. Bimmer sounds more fun to me.

Evolved · 02-23-2009, 12:18 PM

A sub 5 sec 0-60 and a .98 on the skid is tough to argue with. I would like to see an Evo in this mix instead of the Solstice or RX-8 as I'm cross shopping the Evo, 135 and 370.

BForbes · 02-23-2009, 12:18 PM

I'm looking at the data test sheets for the 370Z and 135i.

Interesting facts:
1.) Tested weight - 370Z- 3360lb 135i-3380lb

2.) 0-100mph - 370Z- 11.8sec 135i- 11.8sec

3.) 0-140mph- 370Z- 25.9sec 135i- 27.9sec

_______________________________________________

4.) 5-60mph -370Z- 5.5sec 135i- 5.4sec

5.) 30-50mph 370Z- 8.2sec 135i- 6.0sec

6.) 50-70mph 370Z- 7.6sec 135i- 5.9sec

The Z is a little faster over 100mph. I wonder what accounts for that. The weight is almost the same. At least the 1 has an excuse for being a pig(4seats)..lol

Is the N54 running out of steam in the top end or is the Nissans engine that good? I mean its really down on the torque.

PC Valkyrie · 02-23-2009, 12:29 PM

Straightline acceleration between the 370Z and 135i is almost the same from practical point of view.

Where the 135i fell short vs the 370Z is the skidpad grip (0.91g vs 0.98g). I think most of that difference relates to the stock tires. The 370Z used non-runflat versions of the Bridgestone Potenza 050A, while the 135i had the runflat versions. More importantly, the 370Z had significantly wider tires front and back (245 front, 275 rear) compared to the 135i (215 front, 245 rear).

Interestingly, the 135i and 370Z almost had almost identical lane change speeds on this test.

What the online C&D article did not have was laptimes around Willow. I hope the full article in the newstands will contain this information.

I look forward to seeing some 370Z's on lapping days on a track to see how the cars compare with average drivers behind the wheel.

Upgrade+ · 02-23-2009, 12:30 PM

"What’s to love? Comfy spring rates make for the creamiest street ride of this bunch. Interior noise levels are subdued below 60 mph, and midrange throttle response comes on with an addictive surge. Speaking of that, Pontiac offers a $650 dealer-installed Stage II turbo kit (reprogrammed ECU, increased boost) that adds 40 horses, a bargain per pony."

Not bad for a dealer upgrade for the solstice. I still have to drive the 370z though.

Dangerlucas · 02-23-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BForbes

Is the N54 running out of steam in the top end or is the Nissans engine that good? I mean its really down on the torque.

My guess is it's the gearing.

PC Valkyrie · 02-23-2009, 12:35 PM

And another highlight.....the 135i dominates the 370Z with in-gear acceleration times without a high rpm launch.

5-60mph: 5.4 seconds vs 5.5 seconds
30-60mph: 6.0 seconds vs 8.2 seconds
50-70mph: 5.9 seconds vs 7.6 seconds

Papa13 · 02-23-2009, 12:38 PM

Put a JB3 in that 135i then test it again and we will see whose faster.

Red135 · 02-23-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upgrade+

"What’s to love? Comfy spring rates make for the creamiest street ride of this bunch. Interior noise levels are subdued below 60 mph, and midrange throttle response comes on with an addictive surge. Speaking of that, Pontiac offers a $650 dealer-installed Stage II turbo kit (reprogrammed ECU, increased boost) that adds 40 horses, a bargain per pony."

Not bad for a dealer upgrade for the solstice. I still have to drive the 370z though.

Wait until that upgrade is available for the Cobalt SS. That will be the next car that they like better than the 135.

soupy · 02-23-2009, 12:58 PM

I feel like their overall verdict is dead on with my opinion on our car however: "More of an outstanding sports coupe than a real sports car." Because of this, I love the car as a daily driver, but I feel like I'd rather track something else.

But like many C&D shoot outs, their verdict ends up being due to something weird like looks, feature X, perceived "value" etc. In this case, had they picked the BMW, the reader letters next month would be regurgitating the same "oh wow, you guys picked another BMW" rant.

TP 135i · 02-23-2009, 01:22 PM

The main thing in the article that rubbed me wrong was this statement...

"The Z car’s Bridgestones, the same rubber as on the BMW and the RX-8"

Do they not know that RFT's perform differently than non-RFT's.

And as for styling.....which is purely opinion.....I prefer the 135i.

Still, all in all, an interesting article. One could read the stats and come to many different conclusions as to which car is "the best".

EDUC8ED · 02-23-2009, 01:26 PM

I think this is an example of you get what you pay for. There is something to be said about the 1 being compared to it seems a great deal of existing and newer sports cars. The Z is an excellent value for a "sports car" but the 1 is just as capable if not more capable with 4 seats and RFT's not to mention how comfortable the 1 is as a daily driver. Some of thsese comparisons are like apples and oranges IMO.

BForbes · 02-23-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red135

Wait until that upgrade is available for the Cobalt SS. That will be the next car that they like better than the 135.

GM really failed with this. I wanted it to do well too. It looks pretty cool. Even if you pony up the 650 for 40hp, you will handle like a wet noodle.

Red135 · 02-23-2009, 02:12 PM

Have to give them some credit though. $650 for 40 warrantied-hp? How much is BMW going to charge for 20 hp?

Nice location by the way (Nassau). One of my favorite places on earth.

Evolved · 02-23-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie

And another highlight.....the 135i dominates the 370Z with in-gear acceleration times without a high rpm launch.

5-60mph: 5.4 seconds vs 5.5 seconds
30-60mph: 6.0 seconds vs 8.2 seconds
50-70mph: 5.9 seconds vs 7.6 seconds

That's due to torque.

Russo · 02-23-2009, 02:15 PM

if the solstice came in a 6 spd i would be more inclinded to buy one....

Mazda needs to cancel the rx8, really...

an 07-08 350z looks better exterior wise than the 370z.. IMO the lamps look hideous

the 135i IMO doesn't look as appealing exterior wise to the 335i... it does make up for it with less weight, better brakes, "fun factor", price, etc...

Robert · 02-23-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BForbes

[COLOR="Navy"]

The Z is a little faster over 100mph. I wonder what accounts for that. The weight is almost the same. At least the 1 has an excuse for being a pig(4seats)..lol

Is the N54 running out of steam in the top end or is the Nissans engine that good? I mean its really down on the torque.

135i has a high drag coef I recall.

I finally saw a new Z in the wild last weekend, but it doesn't look very different from existing Zs in motion. I was fairly excited about the new Z and was going to Nissan dealer to check it out after I read so much about its more pronounced stance over predecessor. Naturally I made the connection to my first impression on the GTR which was: "Wow this car is sharp." Needless to say I was a little disappointed when I actually saw one, looks just like the existing Z.

02-23-2009, 11:50 AM	#1
BForbes Moderator 559 Rep 4,240 Posts Drives: BSM 135i/AW E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Orlando, FL iTrader: (0)	CarandDriver: 135i in battle! (GXP,370Z,RX8) http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/compar...est__1/(page)/1 __________________ - 04 Honda S2000(gone) Last edited by BForbes; 02-23-2009 at 12:21 PM..
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02-23-2009, 11:57 AM	#2
amsfoto photographer 57 Rep 571 Posts Drives: AW e92 335i, JB 135i Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Rockville, MD iTrader: (4)	Having drove the Z, I can appreciate it's balance and tight handling....but god it feels so slow compared to the 135i. Maybe if you got used to the lack of torque and it's powerband it would be alright, but driving them back to back the 135i is my obvious choice.
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02-23-2009, 12:04 PM	#3
gnpower Lieutenant 18 Rep 475 Posts Drives: BMW ///M Sport 135i Join Date: May 2008 Location: Red Sox Nation iTrader: (0)	The things that killed bmw vs nissan was exterior styling which is a matter of preference and pricing. I honestly like the 135 styling vs the Z and not because I own a 1. The powertrain chart doesn't make sense to me. both cars are identical for the 0-60 and 0-100 and bmw lost at 0-130, but yet nissan is 2 mph faster than the bimmer. Huh? Good read though. __________________ ///M 135i
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02-23-2009, 12:07 PM	#4
Red135 La Flama Blanca 27 Rep 1,545 Posts Drives: 1-series Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Abq, NM iTrader: (1)	Whaaa...it isn't as pretty as a 3-series. Give me a break. And, a comparably optioned 335i is $6000 more than a 1-series. How is that similarly priced?
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02-23-2009, 12:09 PM	#6
gnpower Lieutenant 18 Rep 475 Posts Drives: BMW ///M Sport 135i Join Date: May 2008 Location: Red Sox Nation iTrader: (0)	270 @5200 for the Z vs 300@1400. Bimmer sounds more fun to me. __________________ ///M 135i
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02-23-2009, 12:18 PM	#7
Evolved Bad Lieutenant 6 Rep 465 Posts Drives: Evo Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: PA iTrader: (0)	A sub 5 sec 0-60 and a .98 on the skid is tough to argue with. I would like to see an Evo in this mix instead of the Solstice or RX-8 as I'm cross shopping the Evo, 135 and 370.
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02-23-2009, 12:29 PM	#9
PC Valkyrie Very slow driver 11 Rep 104 Posts Drives: X3 & 135i & C55 AMG & 911 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 135i [0.00] 2005 C55 AMG [0.00]	Straightline acceleration between the 370Z and 135i is almost the same from practical point of view. Where the 135i fell short vs the 370Z is the skidpad grip (0.91g vs 0.98g). I think most of that difference relates to the stock tires. The 370Z used non-runflat versions of the Bridgestone Potenza 050A, while the 135i had the runflat versions. More importantly, the 370Z had significantly wider tires front and back (245 front, 275 rear) compared to the 135i (215 front, 245 rear). Interestingly, the 135i and 370Z almost had almost identical lane change speeds on this test. What the online C&D article did not have was laptimes around Willow. I hope the full article in the newstands will contain this information. I look forward to seeing some 370Z's on lapping days on a track to see how the cars compare with average drivers behind the wheel. __________________ My track videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/PCValkyrie
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02-23-2009, 12:30 PM	#10
Upgrade+ Good life 130 Rep 1,937 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 AW Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NY iTrader: (8)	"What’s to love? Comfy spring rates make for the creamiest street ride of this bunch. Interior noise levels are subdued below 60 mph, and midrange throttle response comes on with an addictive surge. Speaking of that, Pontiac offers a $650 dealer-installed Stage II turbo kit (reprogrammed ECU, increased boost) that adds 40 horses, a bargain per pony." Not bad for a dealer upgrade for the solstice. I still have to drive the 370z though.
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02-23-2009, 12:35 PM	#12
PC Valkyrie Very slow driver 11 Rep 104 Posts Drives: X3 & 135i & C55 AMG & 911 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 135i [0.00] 2005 C55 AMG [0.00]	And another highlight.....the 135i dominates the 370Z with in-gear acceleration times without a high rpm launch. 5-60mph: 5.4 seconds vs 5.5 seconds 30-60mph: 6.0 seconds vs 8.2 seconds 50-70mph: 5.9 seconds vs 7.6 seconds __________________ My track videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/PCValkyrie
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02-23-2009, 12:38 PM	#13
Papa13 Go Gators! 90 Rep 1,621 Posts Drives: e82 / e90 / e53 / e46 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tampa / SoCal iTrader: (5) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	Put a JB3 in that 135i then test it again and we will see whose faster. __________________ e90 M-Tech 330i JB/Terra / e82 n54 135i AW/CR 420rwhp 444rwtq - RIP e53 X5 4.8is M///BLUE/M///SUEDE - 357whp 369wtq - The Snow Beast! n54 135i JB/CR JB4 FBO - Tc Kline D/A Coils - 11.5 @ 122mph 1/4 mile 18' Blue/Black SEL Premium R-Line 4 Motion Tiguan - Mods on order
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02-23-2009, 12:58 PM	#15
soupy First Lieutenant 15 Rep 305 Posts Drives: 09 135i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NoVa iTrader: (1)	I feel like their overall verdict is dead on with my opinion on our car however: "More of an outstanding sports coupe than a real sports car." Because of this, I love the car as a daily driver, but I feel like I'd rather track something else. But like many C&D shoot outs, their verdict ends up being due to something weird like looks, feature X, perceived "value" etc. In this case, had they picked the BMW, the reader letters next month would be regurgitating the same "oh wow, you guys picked another BMW" rant. __________________ Alpine White, Coral Red Leather, Sport Package, 6MT
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02-23-2009, 01:22 PM	#16
TP 135i Major 29 Rep 1,340 Posts Drives: 2008 135i SGM MT Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Finksburg, Maryland iTrader: (0) Garage List 1995 Acura Integra SE [0.00] 2008 BMW 135i [0.00] 2006 Porsche Cayman S [0.00] 1999 Toyota 4-Runner [0.00]	The main thing in the article that rubbed me wrong was this statement... "The Z car’s Bridgestones, the same rubber as on the BMW and the RX-8" Do they not know that RFT's perform differently than non-RFT's. And as for styling.....which is purely opinion.....I prefer the 135i. Still, all in all, an interesting article. One could read the stats and come to many different conclusions as to which car is "the best". __________________ 2008 135i SGM
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02-23-2009, 01:26 PM	#17
EDUC8ED First Lieutenant 7 Rep 341 Posts Drives: "Blue Majic" Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rochester, NY iTrader: (0)	I think this is an example of you get what you pay for. There is something to be said about the 1 being compared to it seems a great deal of existing and newer sports cars. The Z is an excellent value for a "sports car" but the 1 is just as capable if not more capable with 4 seats and RFT's not to mention how comfortable the 1 is as a daily driver. Some of thsese comparisons are like apples and oranges IMO. __________________ *Montego/ Coral 135i* *"Progress not Perfection"*
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02-23-2009, 02:12 PM	#19
Red135 La Flama Blanca 27 Rep 1,545 Posts Drives: 1-series Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Abq, NM iTrader: (1)	Have to give them some credit though. $650 for 40 warrantied-hp? How much is BMW going to charge for 20 hp? Nice location by the way (Nassau). One of my favorite places on earth.
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02-23-2009, 02:15 PM	#21
Russo Commander 4 Rep 320 Posts Drives: 09 Dodge Dakota Big Horn Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Raceland, LA iTrader: (0)	if the solstice came in a 6 spd i would be more inclinded to buy one.... Mazda needs to cancel the rx8, really... an 07-08 350z looks better exterior wise than the 370z.. IMO the lamps look hideous the 135i IMO doesn't look as appealing exterior wise to the 335i... it does make up for it with less weight, better brakes, "fun factor", price, etc... __________________ FS: CT9A parts and Enkei Wheels!!! PST BLUEFAKES.COM ARE SCAMMERS, LIERS, AND CHEATERS! DO NOT BUY FROM THEM!!!
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