E92 Supercharged

[DamirM3]

I am sure most of you have seen that E92, with the Orange Engine Parts that is being Supercharged, now what has been replaced, was it the entire engin, When tunning the new E92, whats the maximum hp that can be gained by not modifying the engin itself. Adding a turbo which im sure someone has tried.

looking at that video its pretty weird that that is a supercharged E92, atleast to me it doesn't sound like it is. How much of tunning is required to get 100 hp extra to the existing 420hp ?

[Jiaim]

'til bimmerfest you'll see superchargers from g-power, gintani, ess, active autowerke, vf engineering yelding more than 600 crank hp on stock engine.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Jiaim

'til bimmerfest you'll see superchargers from g-power, gintani, ess, active autowerke, vf engineering yelding more than 600 crank hp on stock engine.

These claims of 600+ crank or so on stock engines are baseless. GPower themselves estimates there power gain to about 525bhp DIN (520 SAE) without internal modifications. And yes, that is brake not wheel!!!! I would be highly skeptical of those 600+ wheel hp gain numbers. Please look at this site for more info: http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/technia...ern-bmw-engine All these claims for those of us that have been in this industry only hurt the claimants credibility in my view and as a "real" buyer of all these products for one, will not buy them.

I´ve been moding cars for years, both rebuilds, turbos and Superchargers, with either Racying Dynamics and Dinan for my Bimmer M´s and with Brabus and Kleemann for my AMG´s and know enough to say that the GPower Stage 1 makes no more that 525bhp $13,000 plus tax and install See and scroll down to 525bhp M3: http://www.g-power.de/934.html?&L=1&carid=6000. I really wonder how a guy shows up claims this mod now makes 600 plus hp!!!

Course, 600 is possible with a bottom end rebuild.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

These claims of 600+ crank or so on stock engines are baseless. GPower themselves estimates there power gain to about 525bhp DIN (520 SAE) without internal modifications. And yes, that is brake not wheel!!!! I would be highly skeptical of those 600+ wheel hp gain numbers. Please look at this site for more info: http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/technia...ern-bmw-engine All these claims for those of us that have been in this industry only hurt the claimants credibility in my view and as a "real" buyer of all these products for one, will not buy them.

I´ve been moding cars for years, both rebuilds, turbos and Superchargers, with either Racying Dynamics and Dinan for my Bimmer M´s and with Brabus and Kleemann for my AMG´s and know enough to say that the GPower Stage 1 makes no more that 525bhp $13,000 plus tax and install See and scroll down to 525bhp M3: http://www.g-power.de/934.html?&L=1&carid=6000. I really wonder how a guy shows up claims this mod now makes 600 plus hp!!!

Course, 600 is possible with a bottom end rebuild.

How are they baseless? G power Stage 1 is most likely at 4psi, for every 1psi the car will make approx. 25WHP. FYI the guy that showed up is running Stage 2, which is at 6psi, 150+WHP, so right around 500WHP, which is approx. 600 at the crank so he's not making claims, he's stating fact.

Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of what RDsport is doing, but where's the dyno plots on the stroker? Until we see dyno's or comparo's with other cars, those are merely claims as well, no?

Bottom end rebuild for 600HP? Not needed, ESS, AA all have dynoed in the 500+WHP range with 6psi on stock internals. ESS hit 600WHP at 8-9psi on their test car, stock internals. E46 M3's are making 500WHP at 10psi on stock internals. They are testing now but so far so good on the S65. Trust me if all goes well on the durability aspect, a lot of people will be buying them.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

The G-Power kit you see on this forum owned by M3Post user 'tightie' is the Stage-2 G-Power kit. Stage-2 is rated at 580hp. Tightie was here at Auto Talent getting the SC kit installed at the same time my stroker motor was being assembled. I had a chance to see the entire installation from start to finish.

Robert, have they dynoed the car yet? If it's at 6psi, it should be making around 500WHP on a DJ, which is more than 580 at the crank.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

.Technically, development isn't even completed on the stroker; so it's unreasonable to expect to see any results -- let alone final results. The ECU tuning hasn't been completed, and intake/plenum and valve timing tests haven't been completed either. But give me 72-96 hours, and current development dyno charts should be posted...unless something goes terribly wrong with the dyno.

Nice, I saw your car at Mfest, looks fantastic. Can't wait to see the final outcome of the stroker. Although knowing quite a bit about SC'd E46 M3's, I'm not sure how you pulled on one only reving to 6K.

But I think a E90/2 M3 with all the bolt on's will most likely run with or edge out a Stage 1 Supercharged E46 M3, so I don't see that being a problem for you whatsoever, a stage 2 comparo could be very interesting they do anywhere from 430-530WHP depending on the kit and fuel used. Best of luck on your car and congrats.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Nope, no dyno yet. I wonder if I could talk tightie into taking a trip to Orange County with me later today to dyno his car as well as mine.

I would love to see those results! Hopefully Josh can make it happen.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Extensive durability testing has been done on the ESS test car at 600-650 HP and the motor has been flawless. Current testing is at 700 HP and the motor is just fine but you begin to push the limits at this point. Production kits will be offered in 650 HP and below when released. 650 HP is where ESS feels is a very safe breaking point on the stock motor. This motor can handle boost with no problem when properly tuned.

[96OCTNE]

I guess that ends this thread. lol I can't wait to get 650hp!

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

How are they baseless? G power Stage 1 is most likely at 4psi, for every 1psi the car will make approx. 25WHP. FYI the guy that showed up is running Stage 2, which is at 6psi, 150+WHP, so right around 500WHP, which is approx. 600 at the crank so he's not making claims, he's stating fact.

Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of what RDsport is doing, but where's the dyno plots on the stroker? Until we see dyno's or comparo's with other cars, those are merely claims as well, no?

Bottom end rebuild for 600HP? Not needed, ESS, AA all have dynoed in the 500+WHP range with 6psi on stock internals. ESS hit 600WHP at 8-9psi on their test car, stock internals. E46 M3's are making 500WHP at 10psi on stock internals. They are testing now but so far so good on the S65. Trust me if all goes well on the durability aspect, a lot of people will be buying them.

Read Dinan for this and see GPower. They make 525bhp with stage one and stage 2 (with bottom end rebuild) makes 600 plus bhp. Not going to argue this and that, again, read Dinan report and GPower. 600plus on stage one I think is baseless.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

The G-Power kit you see on this forum owned by M3Post user 'tightie' is the Stage-2 G-Power kit. Stage-2 is rated at 580hp. Tightie was here at Auto Talent getting the SC kit installed at the same time my stroker motor was being assembled. I had a chance to see the entire installation from start to finish.



Technically, development isn't even completed on the stroker; so it's unreasonable to expect to see any results -- let alone final results. The ECU tuning hasn't been completed, and intake/plenum and valve timing tests haven't been completed either. But give me 72-96 hours, and current development dyno charts should be posted...unless something goes terribly wrong with the dyno.

Got it PG, makes entire sense!! With bottom end rebuild no doubt it can make that power.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

Read Dinan for this and see GPower. They make 525bhp with stage one and stage 2 (with bottom end rebuild) makes 600 plus bhp. Not going to argue this and that, again, read Dinan report and GPower. 600plus on stage one I think is baseless.

Not arguing with you at all just stating the facts as we know it, you said 600 hp without a bottom end build is baseless, that is not true. Dinan? Currently Dinan has no SC'r kit for the E92, what report?

The Stage 2 G-power kit on Josh's E92 M3 is with a STOCK BOTTOM END. If they built the bottom end and lowered compression, 6 psi would be rather low boost levels. Either way most US enthusiasts will be running AA, ESS or VF kits, not G-power or Dinan. There's no argument or debate here, did you read the above post from Roman at ESS? Celebrate!

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

Got it PG, makes entire sense!! With bottom end rebuild no doubt it can make that power.

Actually with a built bottom end, lowered compression and 6psi, it makes ZERO sense, it will not make the power unless the boost is increased past 6psi with lowered Compression.

Again it already has made the power on the stock bottom end.

Originally Posted by Rom3n

Extensive durability testing has been done on the ESS test car at 600-650 HP and the motor has been flawless. Current testing is at 700 HP and the motor is just fine but you begin to push the limits at this point. Production kits will be offered in 650 HP and below when released. 650 HP is where ESS feels is a very safe breaking point on the stock motor. This motor can handle boost with no problem when properly tuned.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Actually with a stock bottom end, lowered compression and 6psi, it makes ZERO sense, it will not make the power unless the boost is increased past 6psi with lowered Compression.

Again it already has made the power on the stock bottom end.

In order to lower compression, pistons must be changed, so that to be means rebuild bottom end. Maybe I have the nomenclature mixed up and bottom end rebuild means something more.

[96OCTNE]

I think tightie needs to dyno his car and end this debate. Don't understand why you two are so bitter, either way more power than stock!

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

In order to lower compression, pistons must be changed, so that to be means rebuild bottom end. Maybe I have the nomenclature mixed up and bottom end rebuild means something more.

We're on the same page in that regard, but others might not know.

EDIT: I had a typo and said "stock" instead of "built" I fixed it in the OP.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by 96OCTNE

I think tightie needs to dyno his car and end this debate. Don't understand why you two are so bitter, either way more power than stock!

I'm not bitter in the least, I'm very excited that we have solid choices for more power, stroker or FI for our cars, I'm simply adding to the conversation. And it's been very civil.

ESS and AA have already dynoed, end of debate on the 600HP with a stock bottom end.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Actually, there is another way to lower compression ratio without changing pistons. Often times, a thicker head gasket can be employed to lower compression ratio. Thicker head gasket changes the valve timing. Agreed, I think they've been having a very good and civil conversation. I don't detect any bitterness at all.

Very true that is another less expensive way to do it, funny you should mention the thicker head gasket/spacer, we tried that on my supecharged E46 M3, no go because of the timing chain, this is one reason I moved on from the E46 M3 to the E92, glad I did, the E92 is just a better car, IMHO, and a new project is exciting as well.

[tightie]

I will be dynoing Friday @ 2PM or Saturday @ 11am...
Just depends which day i can head out there.

Stay tuned.

[tightie]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Come with me tomorrow morning...and we'll use a real dyno.

LOL. Do you want to come with me on Friday? You need more then one result.. Do one with your hub thing and one with a dyno jet.. Come on.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Actually, there is another way to lower compression ratio without changing pistons. Often times, a thicker head gasket can be employed to lower compression ratio. Thicker head gasket changes the valve timing.



Agreed, I think they've been having a very good and civil conversation. I don't detect any bitterness at all.

hmm!! Should have known that. Is this what they to in the GPower stage II, or is boost simply increased to 9 psi to get 580bhp DIN and the internals can take it with no problem?

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I'm not bitter in the least, I'm very excited that we have solid choices for more power, stroker or FI for our cars, I'm simply adding to the conversation. And it's been very civil.

ESS and AA have already dynoed, end of debate on the 600HP with a stock bottom end.

Oh plus 1. Not in the least bitter, lol! I am simply making an effort to understand all this as best I can. Of course I am skeptical when someone says Stage 1 and 600bhp and GPower says stage 1 is 525. Now, stage 2 I agree GPower states at 580bhp, pretty cool indeed!! In any event, I have myself been a victim of exaggerated numbers and so on and so forth and like to get to the bottom of things. Only way to do this is by questioning and asking. I have other FI V8 vehicles that I love and have know gone the NA route but really love them both.