Quick Vanguard catback thoughts

[shiblanor]

Hey, decided to go with a Vanguard Ti catback through the recent group buy. Thanks to Mike and Wicked Motor Sports for doing that. Installed it myself in the driveway (see the DIY)...took about 4-5 hrs including the head scratching to figure out the best way to do it.

So after having it on the car for about a week+, i gotta say it's quiet, but not as quiet as i was expecting. Maybe a better way to put it is that it's really quiet in some situations, but is louder in others. It's by no means a loud exhaust, but the biggest surprise is the volume increase at something like 1500-2000 rpm. I won't call it a drone, but it's kind of a resonance (while inside the car). So easing down your street in the morning isn't as quiet as one would hope. Once you hit 2000+ it actually quiets down and goes back to being very mild. At highway speeds, you wouldn't even know it's there alot of the time if you're just cruising. This all with very light/moderate acceleration, if you put your foot into it you'll get more volume across the board. Again, this is all experience from inside the car. Anyway, that's mostly all i wanted to report...it's very lightweight which is cool, tho i doubt you'd ever reap any real world benefit. The fit and finish is top notch, installation was simple. I went with the blue flamed tips, which were a bit larger in diameter than i was expecting (subjective whether this is good or bad). I can't tell a noticeable performance difference, but i wasn't really expecting to either. I've have catbacks on a turbocharged car that showed a 15-18hp wheel increase on a same day dyno and even then it's hard to truly say you can feel a significant difference. It may rev a bit more freely, but that's the most i can say. If i'm making a wish list, i would've preferred it be quiet across the low rpms and as loud as it wants to be at high rpms instead of the other way around. Here's a few pics

[Tio///M]

Beautiful exhaust................how does it look when you are standing at ground level, does the muffler show a lot or does the rear diffusor cover it up. Can you post a pic on how it looks when you look at it from behind w/o the ramps? THanks, again, beautiful exhaust and diffusor.

[MrHarris]

A catback alone will only make the low end loud and usually die off when entering the high end. Pair it with an x-pipe and the high end will come alive. Looks awesome, and the tips look just right.

[10M3MAN]

Nice, this is the exhaust that Im thinking about going with as well...

[M3ltdown]

Very precise review of the Vanguard Exhaust... the fit and finish is definitely top notch! I also installed mine the same way using ramps

The sound of the exhaust was intoxicating during the Midatlantic ride this past weekend (see photo/video section). But I think the sound might be too loud for my wife. She's been complaining ever since it was installed. She really prefers the stock exhaust. I think I might end up selling this exhaust soon or eventually

[golemite]

Originally Posted by Tio///M

Beautiful exhaust................how does it look when you are standing at ground level, does the muffler show a lot or does the rear diffusor cover it up. Can you post a pic on how it looks when you look at it from behind w/o the ramps? THanks, again, beautiful exhaust and diffusor.

Hey Tio, here's a pic I took for someone else around bumper level



Sorry to hear your wife isnt approving Darwin...

[BMWDEMON]

yeah, Darwin...that sucks! My faincee is OK with my full AA set-up and I bet we are putting out the same decibals? Hopefully I can catch up with you before you get rid of it...looks like a beautiful piece!

M

[M3ltdown]

Originally Posted by golemite

Sorry to hear your wife isnt approving Darwin...

Originally Posted by BMWDEMON

yeah, Darwin...that sucks! My faincee is OK with my full AA set-up and I bet we are putting out the same decibals? Hopefully I can catch up with you before you get rid of it...looks like a beautiful piece!

M

Yeah... it's annoying my wife so much that she prefers us using her honda element when we go out


But I'm really enjoying the exhaust though. I was redlining the car during the skyline drive ride and it sounds so intoxicating... like an f1 car. Shareefo has a gintani exhaust and it sounded more like an american v8.

BMWDEMON, i dont think i'll get rid of the exhaust any time soon so we'll definitely meet up in the next skyline drive meet/cruise.

[john@wickedparts]

Originally Posted by Tio///M

Beautiful exhaust................how does it look when you are standing at ground level, does the muffler show a lot or does the rear diffusor cover it up. Can you post a pic on how it looks when you look at it from behind w/o the ramps? THanks, again, beautiful exhaust and diffusor.

Picture of Longtrans E90 with diffuser



More pictures here

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=40

[JeffC]

Great looking exhaust. Makes me want to get a diffuser now.

[EagleEye CA]

WOW! that looks DAMN good. Tips look perfect. How is the weld quality? I never was a fan of flamed tips but that looks great on your car.

[py0413]

!!!lol!!!
I just received my exhaust today and hopefully a diffuser will arrive soon too.

can't wait to see them both on the car!!

this exhaust looks damn good already by itselft!!!

[john@wickedparts]

Originally Posted by py0413

!!!lol!!!
I just received my exhaust today and hopefully a diffuser will arrive soon too.

can't wait to see them both on the car!!

this exhaust looks damn good already by itselft!!!

Glad you got it so fast and I know you will love it.

John

[swamp2]

Most others have reported NO drone whatsoever. I now quite curious about this.

[powertrip]

I'm intrigued to find this out as well. I just ordered up this exhaust....ooooh titanium sexiness .

[py0413]

no drone at all. i can confirmed that because i just had mine installed this afternoon and i took the car out for a 150km drive. just came home 10 mins ago.

deeply in love with this exhaust!!!

[shiblanor]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Most others have reported NO drone whatsoever. I now quite curious about this.

I'd say there's no drone. My definition of drone is like a pulsating almost pressure based sound phenomenon that happens with the engine at a constant rpm. This system is just louder at certain rpm ranges and is quieter at others under light load. I feel like it's gotten a bit louder across the board after putting on a few more hours of driving.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by shiblanor

I'd say there's no drone. My definition of drone is like a pulsating almost pressure based sound phenomenon that happens with the engine at a constant rpm. This system is just louder at certain rpm ranges and is quieter at others under light load. I feel like it's gotten a bit louder across the board after putting on a few more hours of driving.

An increase in loudness over a particular range (compared to either a higher or lower rpm) is drone. The exhaust noise peaks at a certain frequency thus causing an acoustic resonance in the passenger cabin. I believe what you described in your OP is drone. Perhaps the drone is not severe but I still think you are describing drone.

[EagleEye CA]

Originally Posted by swamp2

An increase in loudness over a particular range (compared to either a higher or lower rpm) is drone. The exhaust noise peaks at a certain frequency thus causing an acoustic resonance in the passenger cabin. I believe what you described in your OP is drone. Perhaps the drone is not severe but I still think you are describing drone.

What you say make no sense at all. So if an exhaust at wide open throttle is louder than stock wide open throttle, that means drone? So every aftermarket exhaust drones with your statement at every RPM.

I think when most normal people talk about drone with aftermarket exhaust systems, they are talking about the annoyingly loud harmonic humm or deep booming sound all the way up to 3k-3500 RPM. I haven't heard the Vanguard in person and still on the fence but I don't spend too much time in between 1500-2000 rpm to think it would really matter to me too much.

AA with their Noise Cancellation Chambers still drones I guess at 1000-2200 rpm. They call that excess noise "dragging".

AA drone

IMO, I think all aftermarket exhausts will amplify the stock sound at this rpm.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by EagleEye CA

What you say make no sense at all. So if an exhaust at wide open throttle is louder than stock wide open throttle, that means drone? So every aftermarket exhaust drones with your statement at every RPM.

I think when most normal people talk about drone with aftermarket exhaust systems, they are talking about the annoyingly loud harmonic humm or deep booming sound all the way up to 3k-3500 RPM. I haven't heard the Vanguard in person and still on the fence but I don't spend too much time in between 1500-2000 rpm to think it would really matter to me too much.

It makes perfect sense. Let me clarify just slightly compared to my previous statement. Drone is when a particular narrow rpm range is louder than both slightly higher AND slightly lower rpms. Again drone is an acoustic cabin resonance, to use technical vehicle acoustics terms. The resonance is excited by the exhaust noise transmitting from exhaust exit back into the vehicle. I never said anything about comparing two different exhausts. Drone typically does occur at lower frequencies (in cars) but can occur anywhere given different combinations of engine, exhuast and cabin size and noise treatments.

Just FYI - I worked for years in acoustics with software for modeling automotive vibro-acoustics. I know what drone is...

Back on topic.... I am still keen to get the key question put to rest. Some have reported drone with this syste yet others say there is none.

[JeffC]

Originally Posted by powertrip

I'm intrigued to find this out as well. I just ordered up this exhaust....ooooh titanium sexiness .

Did you get your exhaust on yet?

[TLud]

Originally Posted by swamp2

...
Back on topic.... I am still keen to get the key question put to rest. Some have reported drone with this syste yet others say there is none.

Swamp, I think it's safe to say that there is at least some drone on every aftermarket system because it's even present with the heavy and relatively quiet OEM exhaust. The better questions are (1) where in the rpm range does the drone occur, and (2) how loud is it?

Without objective testing, getting any real answers to these questions is virtually impossible because every person has different ears, tastes and perspectives and because many aftermarket exhaust purchasers want to justify their $2k+ choice to themselves and to others.