1st of 6 major hurdles

[swamp2]

1. Seeing the car unmasked - very soon now.
2. Seeing it in person
3. Getting full specs
4. Getting REAL specs from mag. tests
5. Seeing it in person
6. Driving it yourself

Guys: The last months have really been fun with you all here. It is unreal exciting to be getting to this major hurdle. I have really enjoyed the discussion, debate, opinions, insights, speculation and all of it. I look forward to jumping hurdle 1 together really soon. Cheers.

[Phoenix 21st]

comradery, i like it.

[Steved]

Originally Posted by swamp2

1. Seeing the car unmasked - very soon now.
2. Seeing it in person
3. Getting full specs
4. Getting REAL specs from mag. tests
5. Seeing it in person
6. Driving it yourself

Guys: The last months have really been fun with you all here. It is unreal exciting to be getting to this major hurdle. I have really enjoyed the discussion, debate, opinions, insights, speculation and all of it. I look forward to jumping hurdle 1 together really soon. Cheers.

Well I should be due to drive one in a comparison test as soon as it's available to journalists. Depending on the timing of the C63 release, we may include the Merc or just run a head to head with Audi's RS4 and Porsche's 997.

[BMW //MPOWER]

Originally Posted by Steved

Well I am due to drive one in a comparison test as soon as it's available to journalists. Depending on the timing of the C63 release, we may include the Merc or just run a head to head with Audi's RS4 and Porsche's 997. I will of course share my impressions where possible..

My moneys on the M3 smoking them all!!
.... then again if it's up against the 997 turbo and beats it... i'd be amazed.

[Steved]

It won't be the 997 Turbo but more likely the 997 C2S, to which the M3 has traditionally provided the closest opposition.

[The CSL]

7.) Someone brings out the diecast model, the closest I'll get to owning one for a few years...

[devo]

Originally Posted by BMW //MPOWER

My moneys on the M3 smoking them all!!
.... then again if it's up against the 997 turbo and beats it... i'd be amazed.

LOL. There is no way it's going to even compete with the 997 turbo. The turbo does 0-100 in 8 secs; as low as 7.8 and 0-60 in 3.4. It weighs 3495 w/o PCCBs and puts out 480 HP with 505 lb/tq on overboost. Are you kidding or just uninformed?

[m_bazeepaymon]

Originally Posted by devo

LOL. There is no way it's going to even compete with the 997 turbo. The turbo does 0-100 in 8 secs; as low as 7.8 and 0-60 in 3.4. It weighs 3495 w/o PCCBs and puts out 480 HP with 505 lb/tq on overboost. Are you kidding or just uninformed?

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ITS GONNA SMOKE THE TURBO

lol jk

[ase2dais]

these are my hurdles and realities

1. Seeing the car unmasked - doable
2. Seeing it in person - doable
3. Getting full specs - doable
4. Getting REAL specs from mag. tests - doable
5. Seeing it in person - doable
6. Driving it yourself - now this will take quite some time and maybe alot of hard convincing early owners for me to do

[devo]

Originally Posted by m_bazeepaymon

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ITS GONNA SMOKE THE TURBO

lol jk

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by swamp2

1. Seeing the car unmasked - very soon now.
2. Seeing it in person
3. Getting full specs
4. Getting REAL specs from mag. tests
5. Seeing it in person
6. Driving it yourself

Guys: The last months have really been fun with you all here. It is unreal exciting to be getting to this major hurdle. I have really enjoyed the discussion, debate, opinions, insights, speculation and all of it. I look forward to jumping hurdle 1 together really soon. Cheers.

Well not many US folks have seen nor driven the car yet but it is clear we are passed #4 above. So I guess I will offer this small revision as to what is left. These things will obviously happen before most of us get to see/drive it ourselves.

4a. Seeing some M-DCT spy pics
4b. See the production car in the US (US show debut possibilities: LA - Nov 16-25, Detroit Jan 7-21)
4c. US pricing announcement

7. First US customer deliveries

Any other thoughts on major hurdles or what order they may occur?

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by devo

Smoke the turbo; that is some funny shit. It'll be lucky to compete with the 997S.

Ugh.

1. Thread hi-jack.
1a. Obvious sarcasm - required no reply.
1b. Your point has already been stated more than once in this thread.
2. You are wrong. How many times will we have this argument? It has already tied or bested many individual performance numbers by the 997S. Why do you refuse to accept this? Reference: here. And all at a fraction of the price....

[JEllis]

Wow old thread

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Wow old thread

I know, but I still go back to this to see how far we have come and what is really left. Perspective I guess. Also things are really dead here recently. Granted we have pics of other folks cars but news "does it" for me much more than ogling someone elses car...

[JEllis]

True True... I dont know about you but I am getting really frustrated there is not a price for the US yet.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by JEllis

True True... I dont know about you but I am getting really frustrated there is not a price for the US yet.

Indeed, and you did not reply to my prodding about a bet on the price as well

[SS32]

Price <=$60k base I bet

[Davo2003]

And STILL nobody can tell me what would have happened if Superman had fought Hitler.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Ugh.

1. Thread hi-jack.
1a. Obvious sarcasm - required no reply.
1b. Your point has already been stated more than once in this thread.
2. You are wrong. How many times will we have this argument? It has already tied or bested many individual performance numbers by the 997S. Why do you refuse to accept this? Reference: here. And all at a fraction of the price....

Swamp,

Looks like you made a pretty good hi-jack of the supposed hi-jack of your thread....and I am glad you did. Hope you don't mind if I continue down the road a bit. Anyone can play a numbers game. If you are going to compare the M3 to the C2S then no harm or foul to also compare it to the similar priced Z06 and GT-R. Both these cars will obliterate an M3 on the track, period. But we all know performance numbers in and of themselves do not necessarily make a a great sports car. That is why board members here can still make a legitimate case for the M3. I think it is fair to say we all use the numbers that support the car we favor and and ignore numbers that do not. I think it is interesting to note that even though the M3 is shooting for the 997, it has lost, subjectively so, to an older and the "lesser" Cayman S in the two comparison tests in which they have competed in. It has lost to a car not even boasting 300 hp....because an engine alone does not necessarily make a great sports car. You can put a 500 hp bi-turbo in the M3 and even the base Cayman will still whip it in the corners due to better brakes but more importantly much less mass. Mass is the real enemy of the M3, simple pysics.

One of the early subjective reviews said the M3 is still no CS2, whatever. I agree with you that the M3 boasts excellent numbers for a true 4 seater. The M3 may have better numbers than the CS2 but it looks like this will be very short lived. DFI is around the corner, maybe spring or summer 08. DCT will also be finding it's way into the Porsche line up. You may be right when you say Porsche undestimates the weight of their cars. Yet, the GT3 will easily whip a M3 in a straight line even with less horsepower. Why, because it does actually weigh less and than the M3. It doesn't hurt that it carries a higher percentage of it's weight on the rear wheels.

[JEllis]

Ok, so Porsche makes a good sports car.

I will write that down.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Ok, so Porsche makes a good sports car.

I will write that down.

@Ruff - +1 on the above....

I did not hijack my own hijack. I simply replied to a factually incorrect post by my favorite P fan.

I have never said P. does not make fantastic cars. Yet I have never seen a Cayman S best the M3s NUMBERS in any contest, street or track. Sure we all likely can and do agree the Cayman S is very balanced, precise, fun and trackworthy, it is however in a very different size and basic category compared to the M3. My persistent point about Ps is that they are not very price to performance justified.

I do think it is fair to compare the M3 to the Z06 and GT-R...in a fairly off the cuff fashion only. Again you have track capable, 4 seat GT vs. 2 door pure sports cars. They can be compared simply because they are all very sporty and "about" the same price. The tradeoffs are fairly obvious a bit more luxury, build quality, solid interior and quality in general vs. less weight and much more speed. It's just what ever you want.

What we should really be talking about is heavily modded Evo's vs. the E92 M3! I guess sort of kidding, sort of not...

In this theme it is probably more fair/appropriate to compare the 997S/Turbo/GT, Z06 and GT-R all against each other. Here it is likely that the GT-R will be comparable to the M3 in one important analogous way - great price to performance ratio.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by swamp2

@Ruff - +1 on the above....

I did not hijack my own hijack. I simply replied to a factually incorrect post by my favorite P fan.

I have never said P. does not make fantastic cars. Yet I have never seen a Cayman S best the M3s NUMBERS in any contest, street or track. Sure we all likely can and do agree the Cayman S is very balanced, precise, fun and trackworthy, it is however in a very different size and basic category compared to the M3. My persistent point about Ps is that they are not very price to performance justified.

I do think it is fair to compare the M3 to the Z06 and GT-R...in a fairly off the cuff fashion only. Again you have track capable, 4 seat GT vs. 2 door pure sports cars. They can be compared simply because they are all very sporty and "about" the same price. The tradeoffs are fairly obvious a bit more luxury, build quality, solid interior and quality in general vs. less weight and much more speed. It's just what ever you want.

What we should really be talking about is heavily modded Evo's vs. the E92 M3! I guess sort of kidding, sort of not...

In this theme it is probably more fair/appropriate to compare the 997S/Turbo/GT, Z06 and GT-R all against each other. Here it is likely that the GT-R will be comparable to the M3 in one important analogous way - great price to performance ratio.

You make some good points. I do find it interesting that we are quick to compare the e92 M3 to a four door RS4 because of favorable performance numbers and again quick to compare it to to the 2+2 base 997 because of favorable performance numbers. Yet, it is probably not fair/appropriate to compare it to 997S and especially GT-R or Vette because of some unfavorable performance numbers?

A heavily modded 4 door Evo would probably run with an M3 at below 335 prices. Too many excuses about configurations of the car used as a convenient way to brush off less than stellar performance numbers. IMO, if two cars are close in price or performance then the comparison is fair.

It is not Porsche's fault that BMW chooses to make heavy four seaters and anemic two seaters. BMW themselves are quick to compare the E92 M3 to the 997. You don't see Porsche needing to compare the 997 to the M3 or Nissan comparing the GTR to anything M or for that matter Chevrolet needing to compare the Vette to anything hailing from Munich.