Autoblog interviews Albert Biermann (head of M product development)

[b33g33]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/18/s...rned-at-bmw-m/

One worrying note: He doesn't like the idea that the US market is 'forcing' M division to keep making manuals. Hopefully the 1M sales and demand will change his mind.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by b33g33

he thinks the 1M is 'cute'.

Autoblog considered it "just cute" that Mr. Biermann calls the 1M the "little one":
"Also, he calls the 1M the "little one." Which is just cute."

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by b33g33

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/18/s...rned-at-bmw-m/

One worrying note: He doesn't like the idea that the US market is 'forcing' M division to keep making manuals. Hopefully the 1M sales and demand will change his mind but he thinks the 1M is 'cute'.

Interesting article. But... the day BMW stops offering a manual transmision is the day I start driving something else(make/Porsche).

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Autoblog considered it "just cute" that Mr. Biermann calls the 1M the "little one":
"Also, he calls the 1M the "little one." Which is just cute."

You're right. My reading comprehension is not great before 8 a.m.

[T1T2GRE]

Kay Segler, where are you when we need you?

"But Biermann surprised us when he revealed that the goal of every M car isn't to lose weight from the model on which it's based, but match that vehicle's weight."

"Next year when the M5 makes it Stateside, you'll be able to spec either the seven-speed dual-clutch 'box or a six-speed manual. This fact seems to irritate Biermann. "Here's the problem with the stick," Biermann tells us in a slightly annoyed tone, "only the U.S. wants it. And with the DCT, there's no question about how it will behave. With a manual, the driver is a serious question."

"Also, he calls the 1M the 'little one'."

So next generation M cars will be heavier than their non-M counterparts and have flappy paddles? And what's with this "little one" crap? The "little one" is getting so much demand that they can't keep up and dealers are charging premiums. Not to mention that it's torque-spanking the M3. It's obviously confirmed a need for a roots car (ok, I know I will get flamed by the non-forced-induction/NA crowd).

I guess this means we will start seeing M7s and probably even M-minivans.

[v1k0d3n]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Interesting article. But... the day BMW stops offering a manual transmision is the day I start driving something else(make/Porsche).

Bingo. Hit it right there! It'll also mean that the used manual M models will be in high demand if they stop making manuals as an option. Not a good move on BMW's part. I want a drivers car dammit...why can't manufacturers see that anymore?!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by T1T2GRE

"Also, he calls the 1M the 'little one'."

I am in no way offended by that "size matters" quote.
As a Belgian singer (Arno - TC Matic) has put it in a song with a twist: "I have a small one, but I shoot far" ("'k Heb een kleintje maar 'k schiet verre").

[T1T2GRE]

Originally Posted by Artemis

I am in no way offended by that "size matters" quote.
As a Belgian singer (Arno - TC Matic) has put it in a song with a twist: "I have a small one, but I shoot far" ("'k Heb een kleintje maar 'k schiet verre").

that's great. I just took it as a ding against the 1M, as if it's some sort of runt of the litter.

[fermat1313]

Originally Posted by v1k0d3n

Bingo. Hit it right there! It'll also mean that the used manual M models will be in high demand if they stop making manuals as an option. Not a good move on BMW's part. I want a drivers car dammit...why can't manufacturers see that anymore?!

Because companies aren't in business to meet some esoteric goal of pure automotive design, they are there to make a profit. The majority of their customers don't give a whit about an automatic transmission. We all get together and agree we like manuals (I know I do), but that gives us a false sense of being a bigger community than we are. Those of us that still want manuals are the edge case, and we should get used to it.

I was at a Porsche dealer last weekend, and they had almost no manual cars in stock. If I wanted a manual Cayman I couldn't get it, because they only had PDK cars on order, and they couldn't take special orders for Caymans now.

The sad fact is, the number of high-performance cars that are available with automatics is dwindling, and this will continue. BMW isn't the only manufacturer going this direction. I don't follow Porsche as much, but I'm sure they will be heading down this path also.

I don't like it, but you can't really fault the companies for this. Their responsibility is to their shareholders, and they will go where the profit is.

[T1T2GRE]

Originally Posted by fermat1313

Because companies aren't in business to meet some esoteric goal of pure automotive design, they are there to make a profit. The majority of their customers don't give a whit about an automatic transmission. We all get together and agree we like manuals (I know I do), but that gives us a false sense of being a bigger community than we are. Those of us that still want manuals are the edge case, and we should get used to it.

I was at a Porsche dealer last weekend, and they had almost no manual cars in stock. If I wanted a manual Cayman I couldn't get it, because they only had PDK cars on order, and they couldn't take special orders for Caymans now.

The sad fact is, the number of high-performance cars that are available with automatics is dwindling, and this will continue. BMW isn't the only manufacturer going this direction. I don't follow Porsche as much, but I'm sure they will be heading down this path also.

I don't like it, but you can't really fault the companies for this. Their responsibility is to their shareholders, and they will go where the profit is.

Yup. It's sad, but true. When I traded my X3 in towards the 1SMC, I was a little dismayed because I'd never be able to get a manual X3 again. Sort of a bummer, but I suppose they go by the best-selling demographics. But, truly, how applicable are DCTs in the "real world"/off of the track? How many people really use their vehicles on the track? Here, there is a good proportion, but I would think that bulk of M drivers are folks who want real-world, on-street performance and not necessarily a Ferrari-slayer.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by fermat1313

Because companies aren't in business to meet some esoteric goal of pure automotive design, they are there to make a profit. The majority of their customers don't give a whit about an automatic transmission. We all get together and agree we like manuals (I know I do), but that gives us a false sense of being a bigger community than we are. Those of us that still want manuals are the edge case, and we should get used to it.

I was at a Porsche dealer last weekend, and they had almost no manual cars in stock. If I wanted a manual Cayman I couldn't get it, because they only had PDK cars on order, and they couldn't take special orders for Caymans now.

The sad fact is, the number of high-performance cars that are available with automatics is dwindling, and this will continue. BMW isn't the only manufacturer going this direction. I don't follow Porsche as much, but I'm sure they will be heading down this path also.

I don't like it, but you can't really fault the companies for this. Their responsibility is to their shareholders, and they will go where the profit is.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the reason for the F10 M5 being offered with a manual was a visit by the BMW brass to a BMW CCA meeting where the vast majority of owners would track their cars and asked for a manual.

The purpose of a halo brand like M is to give a big middle finger to the bean counters and get the enthusiasts excited so they go around proselytizing the entire marque to the world.

One of the main reasons that BMW has the image of being 'sportier' than the other luxury marques from Europe like Audi and Mercedes was the groundswell of enthusiasm it generated in the 80's and 90's with cars like the E30 M3 and the E39 M5. The 1M was a conscious effort to wrest control back from the pragmatists and I think the results speak for themselves.

BMW will ignore the enthusiast community at their peril.

[T1T2GRE]

Originally Posted by b33g33

The purpose of a halo brand like M is to give a big middle finger to the bean counters and get the enthusiasts excited The 1M was a conscious effort to wrest control back from the pragmatists and I think the results speak for themselves.

BMW will ignore the enthusiast community at their peril.

Very well said!

I am comfortable and accepting of the fact that they need to run a business with the standard offerings (ubiquitous 3 series, SAVs, etc.). I just get a little miffed when they tread on the M Division. IMHO, some of their M decisions are very brand-diluting. If BMW doesn't maintain enough separation between the M and the run-of-the-mill, I fear that the M will suffer. Your "BMW will ignore the enthusiast community at their peril is a great way of putting it.