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[IGoFast1589]

I just received my 18x8.5 +45 Apex Arc 8's today and I have a question for you fitment folks here. I specifically asked when ordering the wheels what would work so that I could run a square setup on my car and I was told that the 18x8.5 +45 offset would work and so that's what I went with. The goal was to be to rotate the wheels and tires as I wish. I decided to test fit the wheels without tires to see how they would fit and judge if I will have any issues and it seems pretty obvious that I will need a wheel spacer if this will even work at all. I knew that I may need a spacer to clear the strut, but damn! Take a look at the picture and let me know what you guys think. Can this work with a spacer or was I fed wrong information here? The clearance is WAY too close for comfort. There is so little clearance, but I really don't know how much is enough clearance to be OK.

Just so everyone knows, my suspension is stock M package suspension and I plan to run Dinan camber plates if not Vorshalg's. I don't mind running a spacer or doing a little fender work to make my setup work. I want to run a 245 on all 4 corners.

Please advise! Thanks.

[dicker]

is it touching? if not you're fine. I can only fit a slip of paper between mine and the strut, 3 track days later it's still fine.

[Eyeman]

Should work for sure, you just have to work at it a little. If you add camber plates there's very little doubt that you'll need spacers, 5-10mm should do it. Tires that run square and wide might be hard to get to not rub no matter what you do.

[xerox445]

Camber Plates up front, to my knowledge will not change strut to wheel clearance on a McPherson suspension. Crash Bolts will, but not camber plates.

[IGoFast1589]

Originally Posted by dicker

is it touching? if not you're fine. I can only fit a slip of paper between mine and the strut, 3 track days later it's still fine.

Really? Damn... No, it's not touching. I do have a little space. I will need a spacer without a doubt to fit any tire that goes past the edge of the wheel even a little bit.

Originally Posted by xerox445

Camber Plates up front, to my knowledge will not change strut to wheel clearance on a McPherson suspension. Crash Bolts will, but not camber plates.

I believe you are right as well. Plates are only modifying the position of the strut from the top so it shouldn't change anything wheel clearance wise. I was adding it really for sake of just having a full understanding of my setup.

[IGoFast1589]

Originally Posted by Eyeman

Should work for sure, you just have to work at it a little. If you add camber plates there's very little doubt that you'll need spacers, 5-10mm should do it. Tires that run square and wide might be hard to get to not rub no matter what you do.

I just noticed your setup in your signature. 19x8.5 +43 in the front with a 235/35 tire. What's your clearance like from the strut? Any rubbing anywhere else? If you could post any pictures of your clearance from the strut as well as tire from the fender that would be great. What's your alignment?

[dicker]

Originally Posted by IGoFast1589

Really? Damn... No, it's not touching. I do have a little space. I will need a spacer without a doubt to fit any tire that goes past the edge of the wheel even a little bit.



I believe you are right as well. Plates are only modifying the position of the strut from the top so it shouldn't change anything wheel clearance wise. I was adding it really for sake of just having a full understanding of my setup.

Camber plates wont adjust that clearance, correct. 235/40/18 Michelin PSS cleared for me. You'll be fine with those or any 225.

[IGoFast1589]

Originally Posted by dicker

Camber plates wont adjust that clearance, correct. 235/40/18 Michelin PSS cleared for me. You'll be fine with those or any 225.

Can you give me more details about your setup? Alignment specs, wheel info, fender work? I am looking to go with at least a 245 so I am trying to gauge how much needs to be done here.

[Eddy@ApexWheels]

I am not sure if you purchased the wheels direct or if you went through a dealer, so I can't be sure what you've been told about this fitment.

That said, I see nothing wrong in your picture at all. You stated above that you do not know how much clearance you need. I can tell you that you have a decent amount of strut tube clearance. The wheel and tire simply need to clear the strut tube (including under flex when turning). Anything more is wasted space.

Consider what would happen if you had the luxury of 10-15mm of strut tube clearance, and how that would affect your fender side clearance. Would you rather have fender issues and have lots of extra wasted space on the strut side, or would you rather have exactly the amount of space you need on both sides? You want to run a 1" wider wheel with a 245 on a car that came with a 215. You're going to have tight tolerances.

The only question will be what 245/35/18 tire you want to run, as they each have a different overall shape. Some 235/40/18's will waste more space than 245/35/18's simply because of the shape of their rim/bead protector. That can even be true for the same brand/model tire. extreme summer tires and r-compounds/slicks will also run oversized and can cause issues. Do not run a 245/40/18 just to get a specific tire model you like, by doing that you've compromised the fitment. If you want to run a 245 on your specific setup then it must be a 245/35/18.


Camber is still a must to get a 245 onto the car. If I were you, I would get the Ground-Control camber plates that work with OEM style springs. I would skip the Dinan fixed plate as they are not enough camber and unadjustable, and the Vorshlag's haven't been playing well in OEM spring configurations in our experience.

Once you have an adjustable camber plate then if you did need a 3mm spacer, you could easily make it fit, but that will push everything out towards the fender and you'll need even more camber. If you are left with just a few millimeters of clearance then your set, I would not space it out unless you actually had rubbing issues.

[IGoFast1589]

Originally Posted by paintpro21

I am not sure if you purchased the wheels direct or if you went through a dealer, so I can't be sure what you've been told about this fitment.

That said, I see nothing wrong in your picture at all. You stated above that you do not know how much clearance you need. I can tell you that you have a decent amount of strut tube clearance. The wheel and tire simply need to clear the strut tube (including under flex when turning). Anything more is wasted space.

Consider what would happen if you had the luxury of 10-15mm of strut tube clearance, and how that would affect your fender side clearance. Would you rather have fender issues and have lots of extra wasted space on the strut side, or would you rather have exactly the amount of space you need on both sides? You want to run a 1" wider wheel with a 245 on a car that came with a 215. You're going to have tight tolerances.

The only question will be what 245/35/18 tire you want to run, as they each have a different overall shape. Some 235/40/18's will waste more space than 245/35/18's simply because of the shape of their rim/bead protector. That can even be true for the same brand/model tire. extreme summer tires and r-compounds/slicks will also run oversized and can cause issues. Do not run a 245/40/18 just to get a specific tire model you like, by doing that you've compromised the fitment. If you want to run a 245 on your specific setup then it must be a 245/35/18.


Camber is still a must to get a 245 onto the car. If I were you, I would get the Ground-Control camber plates that work with OEM style springs. I would skip the Dinan fixed plate as they are not enough camber and unadjustable, and the Vorshlag's haven't been playing well in OEM spring configurations in our experience.

Once you have an adjustable camber plate then if you did need a 3mm spacer, you could easily make it fit, but that will push everything out towards the fender and you'll need even more camber. If you are left with just a few millimeters of clearance then your set, I would not space it out unless you actually had rubbing issues.

Thanks for the insight. When you refer to flex you are referring to tire flex, correct? So as long as the wheel and tire clear under load in a corner I am good to go? How much sidewall flex do you expect when fully cornering given a stiff extreme performance tire sidewall? I was always going with a 245/35/18 so good. I have heard of the GC plates before, but never really looked into them. I'll check them out and see what suits my needs best.

I guess the thing to do is mount the tires I want, get the plates and install them, then gauge if spacers and or a fender roll will be needed, do it and then get the car aligned. I just NEED to know these wheels are good to go before I mount tires to them so I can return them if need be.

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by paintpro21

Camber is still a must to get a 245 onto the car.

i agree with everything you've said here, though it's worth noting that in my case, a 245 PS2 fits without rubbing WITH OR WITHOUT a 10mm spacer (slight DIY fender pull, tabs NOT trimmed, alignment pins removed but no camber plates, and a moderately low ride height). this tells me two things: 1. there's some space there, and 2. (due likely to manufacturing tolerances at bmw?), people have varied experiences with what works and what doesn't... i don't think it's a given that plates will be required to run 245 rubber, though you may find a greater reason for plates.

fwiw, my strut tube clearance is SUPER close without the spacer, but a mailing label test has proven that only very slight rubbing occurs there, which is not detectable to me, so i'm fine with it.

op: rest assured... you did get the best wheel currently available for square fitments. also, try to avoid spacers between 3mm and 10mm in thickness, as they negate the hub-centric nature of our fitment without hub extenders.

[wnta135]

I am running the setup you are trying to get. The ARC 8's (18x8.5et45) at each corner
with 245/35 Yokohama Sdrive's.
I had to:
1 - add Vorshlag camber plates in front with about -2.0 camber. This clears both the strut and the fender lip so no rubbing.
2 - rolled the rear fenders to help prevent rubbing. Still get a slight rub when hitting
bumps that cause enough compression in the rear.

[Eyeman]

I don't have any strut/wheel clearance pics and my car is in the shop now still trying to work out some pulling issues that I have. For sure it's a pretty tight fit and would be tighter with 245 tires.

My setup shows no signs of ever rubbing the front struts, or the fenders for that matter. However my front setup is too tall for how low that I've lowered my suspension. If I have a couple hundred pounds in my car and make a tight turn over a bump the top of my tires slightly rub the bottom of the fender.

My last alignment had me at -1.5 right and -1.7 left front camber.

[cpt97m3]

Originally Posted by xerox445

Camber Plates up front, to my knowledge will not change strut to wheel clearance on a McPherson suspension. Crash Bolts will, but not camber plates.

True on the first part. Second sentence is true for the E36 struts, but the 1-Series E8x cars don't have that bolt, so that does not apply to E8x cars.

[xerox445]

Originally Posted by cpt97m3

True on the first part. Second sentence is true for the E36 struts, but the 1-Series E8x cars don't have that bolt, so that does not apply to E8x cars.

True on all parts, I never said E8x cars have a double bolt suspension design, I said on McPherson suspension design, crash bolts will change the clearance, not camber plates.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by IGoFast1589

I just NEED to know these wheels are good to go before I mount tires to them so I can return them if need be.

The wheels are fine, lots of us have them including me.

It's all about the tires now, but yes the wheels are fine.

[dicker]

I don't think a 245 Michelin PSS will fit in the front without a 3mm spacer, my 235's just barely clear the strut.

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by dicker

I don't think a 245 Michelin PSS will fit in the front without a 3mm spacer, my 235's just barely clear the strut.

fboutlaw (and others) are using these wheels with pss 255 up front with no spacer. 245 pss should clear the strut with room to spare. the closest part of the tire to the strut is the lip protector, which doesn't move much as you step up in width.

[IGoFast1589]

Great feedback here, thanks all. I will grab the tires I want and go from there. Will also check out the GC plates because now I am interested and if I need to do somethings I will, but based on the responses it seems like there is a possibility of getting by without too many obstacles.

One thing I am curious about though is the hub extender. What exactly does it look like? I understand how spacers can cause premature wear, but how does the extender alleviate that?

[Eddy@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by fourtailpipes

i agree with everything you've said here, though it's worth noting that in my case, a 245 PS2 fits without rubbing WITH OR WITHOUT a 10mm spacer (slight DIY fender pull, tabs NOT trimmed, alignment pins removed but no camber plates, and a moderately low ride height). this tells me two things: 1. there's some space there, and 2. (due likely to manufacturing tolerances at bmw?), people have varied experiences with what works and what doesn't... i don't think it's a given that plates will be required to run 245 rubber, though you may find a greater reason for plates.

fwiw, my strut tube clearance is SUPER close without the spacer, but a mailing label test has proven that only very slight rubbing occurs there, which is not detectable to me, so i'm fine with it.

op: rest assured... you did get the best wheel currently available for square fitments. also, try to avoid spacers between 3mm and 10mm in thickness, as they negate the hub-centric nature of our fitment without hub extenders.

The Michelin PS2 is one of the narrowest tires on the market. It's as wide from sidewall to sidewall is extreme summer tires in 235.

This is another good example of why you have to ignore the numbers of the sidewall in many cases, and go off of real user data.

3-5mm spacers will remain 100% hubcentric with our wheels. We customized the depth of the chamfer on this wheel so that it guaranteed catches the hubcentric lip of the wheel bearing even with a flat spacer. I can't think of a wheel that woudn't work with a 3mm spacer, but there are some out there that can't handle a 5mm spacer, and that is less the wheels fault, and more due to how short the factory made the hub extension. So rest assured a spacer will work flawlessly on these wheels if it were needed. It should only be avoided as it pushes the wheel/tire closer to the fender, and that's not ideal.

[Eddy@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by dicker

I don't think a 245 Michelin PSS will fit in the front without a 3mm spacer, my 235's just barely clear the strut.

245 PSS is not 245/35. It's a 245/40/18 which is tall and that brings a new fitment issue into the equation. With that tire, the two usable sizes are 235/40/18 and 255/35/18.

[IGoFast1589]

245/35/18 doesn't leave you with as many good options as I thought... The BFGoodrich KDW 2's are nice, but I was looking to get back into a more serious tire. Now I am faced with either modifying the size I want or compromising on a tire choice.