Brakes or LSD

[koastal]

I am wondering which will give the largest reduction in lap times (lakeside and QR) , a LSD or a brake upgrade. On that note are the 1M brakes considered superior to the std 135 items ?

[BMW86]

LSD all the way mate. Cheap break upgrade is using better fluid and changing it more regularly ie. before and after.

[Zuzu]

Probably LSD..

The 1M has the exact same brake package as the E92 M3... So yes, they are superior brakes to the OEM 135i brakes.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by koastal

I am wondering which will give the largest reduction in lap times (lakeside and QR) , a LSD or a brake upgrade. On that note are the 1M brakes considered superior to the std 135 items ?

LSD, but you can't put 1M brakes on 135 though. (I am actually not qualify to comment on this thread. )

[koastal]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

LSD.... Stock brakes are pretty good? If I was spending $$$ on a 135i I would do in te following order.... Suspension, LSD, brakes

Thanks for the prompt opinions
Yes the factory pads are quite good. Wore them out 55000klm and 4 track days .
Ordered some endless me20 which have been good before.
Do the 1m brakes have larger surface area

What's brand of LSD is considered best for these cars .

[BMW86]

Wavetrac and Quaife are the 2 cheapest options and about the same price. From my research the Wavetrac is the only LSD that puts power down to both wheels when one wheel is off the ground. Quaife has been around a lot longer and has a solid reputation though.

[MMorbo]

Have been doing some earlier research on this...

The Torsen types are Quaife / Wave track (depending on if you are auto / manual) start at about 1500 for the unit and 400-600 installation...

The Clutch type (Drexler / OS Giken) are double that price again about 3,800 for the unit...

Given there are plenty more experienced people on the forum then me i won't state anything further... The Aussie Drexler dealer i found relatively reasonable to talk to and he sent through plenty of information on the variances between the two (after i asked about the price differential)...

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

LSD.... Stock brakes are pretty good? If I was spending $$$ on a 135i I would do in te following order.... Suspension, LSD, brakes

+1 on suspension first.

[koastal]

Originally Posted by BMW86

LSD all the way mate. Cheap break upgrade is using better fluid and changing it more regularly ie. before and after.

Ta, Is your 135 using a lsd. If so where you able to measure the improvement. Lsd,s are expensive it seems but if they saved a second or more per lap it may be justifiable.
I dont really understand how the e diff works, but am intrigued that some ferraris use the same technology. Does it just brake the wheel that is spinning. If so it sounds more like traction control.

[koastal]

Originally Posted by sparoz

+1 on suspension first.

I agree. I bought those BC er coilovers of Pete at advan, but wont have them fitted till next week.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by koastal

Ta, Is your 135 using a lsd. If so where you able to measure the improvement. Lsd,s are expensive it seems but if they saved a second or more per lap it may be justifiable.
I dont really understand how the e diff works, but am intrigued that some ferraris use the same technology. Does it just brake the wheel that is spinning. If so it sounds more like traction control.

It's hard for me to quantify the gains.

I have been to the drags 4 times, each time I have improved my PB. The 4th time I went was the only time I had an LSD, however I ran a lower profile 19 inch wheel. Overall my 60ft's were less consistent and I put this down to the wheel/tyre choice.

As for the track, I've been to QR a few times and Lakeside once. Each time I've improved my PB but I put this down to more time behind the wheel at the track and gaining more experience. I have had the LSD for each track day though. I'm sure if I didn't have an LSD when I come out of a corner the nannies would kick in and cut power, this eventually cooks the brakes faster and is not only frustrating, but dangerous too.

I know we like to see numbers but I don't have any to back up the LSD. I do feel a noticeable difference, it is easier to slide the car, but that doesn't mean it's easy to control it, just takes more practice and time to learn. I can easily come out of any corner sideways (DTC press once) but it's what happens after that which is important as you can easily snap oversteer. Overall, the LSD makes the car feel a lot more 'fun' to drive but bystanders could easily mistake it for hooliganism too so it's important to pick your spots. The fun factor alone has made it worth it for me.

If you're choosing between brakes and LSD, I recommend getting the LSD. I don't think you are making enough power to justify upgrading the brakes at the point. However, that also depends on how often you track your car too.

[Stuart@BMRAutowerkes]

Originally Posted by BMW86

From my research the Wavetrac is the only LSD that puts power down to both wheels when one wheel is off the ground.

That's my understanding too, and the whole 'one wheel off the ground thing' is meant to be a benefit of the wavetrac, but oddly I saw it in person and it didn't kick into action.

Clinton's car (with wavetrac) was entering an angled driveway and he just sat there tripodding with one rear wheel spinning.

[Stuart@BMRAutowerkes]

+2 on suspension first.

Good set of coilovers absolutely transforms the car.

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by bmroxm5

That's my understanding too, and the whole 'one wheel off the ground thing' is meant to be a benefit of the wavetrac, but oddly I saw it in person and it didn't kick into action.

Clinton's car (with wavetrac) was entering an angled driveway and he just sat there tripodding with one rear wheel spinning.

my understanding is only clutch type will work with 1 wheel off the ground/100% loss of traction. perhaps pete might chime in

[Stuart@BMRAutowerkes]

Originally Posted by pavo335

my understanding is only clutch type will work with 1 wheel off the ground/100% loss of traction. perhaps pete might chime in

Not sure on that but wavetrac claims to work under zero axle load
http://www.limited-slip.com/acatalog...LSD_Works.html

[BMW86]

There is a video of a guy with Wavetrac LSD with one wheel off the ground showing both wheels spinning. He does a few tests and it proves it works.

I couldn't find the video but I found this whist looking for it. Enjoy

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by bmroxm5

Not sure on that but wavetrac claims to work under zero axle load
http://www.limited-slip.com/acatalog...LSD_Works.html

mmm interesting 'marketing' material.

i'd suggest

1. lusty does NOT have a wavetrac or;
2. wavetrack marketing folk have not spoken to the engineers

[int2str]

Originally Posted by koastal

I dont really understand how the e diff works, but am intrigued that some ferraris use the same technology. Does it just brake the wheel that is spinning. If so it sounds more like traction control.

Maybe this will help?
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...php?p=12358868

Originally Posted by bmroxm5

Not sure on that but wavetrac claims to work under zero axle load
http://www.limited-slip.com/acatalog...LSD_Works.html

On our cars *any* LSD will work in zero axle load. Because even with an LSD, our car will slightly put on the brakes on the spinning wheel, this creating enough resistance for the LSD to work - even a Quaife or similar which normally wouldn't work under 0 load.

[koastal]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

Wavetrack better for icy roads were one side hits ice, but Quaife seems the more popular and trusted option.

if you are doing suspension, really consider M3 FSB and bushings

Cheers, Def will if they can reduce lap times. Will they do this ?

On the subject of brakes I am coNfused why the 1M brakes are better is it purely because they are floating and Larger diameter. The brakes on the 135 kind of look better and I understand they are el cheapo brembos. Can someone elaborate ?

[koastal]

Originally Posted by BMW86

It's hard for me to quantify the gains.

If you're choosing between brakes and LSD, I recommend getting the LSD. I don't think you are making enough power to justify upgrading the brakes at the point. However, that also depends on how often you track your car too.

Re: power I have no idea what it will be making it has a jb4 and a downpipe.
I noticed the terminal speed at the drags was 113 mph whatever that translates to. I would be happy not to upgrade the brakes if I don't have to so will try fluid and pads as recommended by yourself and hopefully that will solve the sponge issue.
Thanks

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by koastal

Re: power I have no idea what it will be making it has a jb4 and a downpipe.
I noticed the terminal speed at the drags was 113 mph whatever that translates to. I would be happy not to upgrade the brakes if I don't have to so will try fluid and pads as recommended by yourself and hopefully that will solve the sponge issue.
Thanks

Are you trapping 113mph consistently on 98RON? If so that's really good considering your mods on an N55. My brakes turn a bit mushy but that's towards the end of the day. Make sure you've got fresh brake fluid with a higher boiling point. I'm yet to try non-oem brake fluid myself but so far they've held up okay. Having said that, I only manage to run a lap or 2 before my car limps so it has probably taken the least abuse out of the 1ers thus far.

[koastal]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Are you trapping 113mph consistently on 98RON? If so that's really good considering your mods on an N55. My brakes turn a bit mushy but that's towards the end of the day. Make sure you've got fresh brake fluid with a higher boiling point. I'm yet to try non-oem brake fluid myself but so far they've held up okay. Having said that, I only manage to run a lap or 2 before my car limps so it has probably taken the least abuse out of the 1ers thus far.

Yes 113 mph is consistent. My 18 yr old daughter trapped 13.0 @ 113 mph at her first outing. Is it the oil temp that causes limp with yours. My ! Light came on but I thought it was pads cos they are toast