Upgraded from Dinan S3 to GIAC S2

pinternational · 08-07-2012, 06:03 PM

I've had Dinan Stage 3 (with all accompanying bolt-ons: oil cooler, intercooler, intake) for a couple years. While Stage 3 brought a slight improvement over Stage 2 in terms of performance and 'butt dyno', i suspect the improvement was almost entirely due to the bolt-ons... I'm not sure that the extra expense required to take the car from stage 2 to stage 3 (in terms of hardware) necessarily paid off in terms of the power gains provided by the 'more aggressive' Dinan software. In hindsight, the only reason to get the bolt-on mods required by Dinan S3 is so that when your factory warranty is due to expire, you're only a few small steps away from having all the hardware mods required/suggested for a 'real tune'...or piggyback or whatever you choose.

Over the past week I added catted downpipes and Maddad Mids to my Dinan Stage 3 car and...i'm not gonna lie, it made a huge difference. The car pulled noticeably harder higher up the RPM range. But, Dinan S3 isn't written to factor in a downpipe or midpipe... so to stop here would have been a waste.

So....

Today, I added GIAC Stage 2 and holy s**t. Night and Day improvement over the Dinan Software. Whatever improvement the DPs/Mids brought to the Dinan S3 tune, that improvement literally DOUBLED by overwriting it with the GIAC S2. Its scary! I feel like i'm driving pretty much the same way, but instead of accelerating semi-hard and being at 100km/h....I look down and i'm doing 140 or 150km/h with equal effort. Its, quite simply, smooth and effortless power that you've really got to pay attention to!

The grass on the other side of the Dinan fence is most definitely lush and green and really really fast

ken1137 · 08-07-2012, 06:19 PM

Very nice!...I always suspected Stage 2 with GIAC would be pretty darn good.

Dackelone · 08-07-2012, 06:31 PM

I think the reason why is... my German tuner told me that Giac is the only flash tuner who has written the code to run higher than 15psi boost AND ignition tables. Everyone else just uses the factory code. Giac has taken the trouble to write their own code. At least that is what I was told and the reason why they can run (up to) 18 psi with their flash tune.

kkrikkett · 08-07-2012, 06:31 PM

So did u put it back to stock then put in tune? Or r u running tune on top of dinan tune?

kkrikkett · 08-07-2012, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think the reason why is... my German tuner told me that Giac is the only flash tuner who has written the code to run higher than 15psi boost AND ignition tables. Everyone else just uses the factory code. Giac has taken the trouble to write their own code. At least that is what I was told and the reason why they can run (up to) 18 psi with their flash tune.

And this was my next question what kind of boost u running now I could only get 15.9 with stage II dinan. Its kind of stange with mine i can never get same boost all the time it all over the map from 13 to 14 to high of 15 if i floor it somtimes get 15 if i ease into it 3/4 throttle it seems boost is higher and u feel car pulling harder

pinternational · 08-07-2012, 07:24 PM

It would have erased the Dinan tune altogether and replaced it with the GIAC. I am 99% sure its impossible to run 2 tunes at once hehe....unless you're putting a piggyback like JB+ on top of a Dinan tune....

pinternational · 08-07-2012, 07:27 PM

I don't have a boost gauge, but am considering getting the car dyno'd to get a better idea of what's going on. I never dyno'd the dynan S3 tho, so i won't know EXACTLY the performance improvement, but man... butt dyno is all i need to know that the Dinan was like a non-existent tune in comparison. Less so with the DPs and Mids, but yeah... still no comparison between the Dinan S3 and GIAC S2.

cloud_connected · 08-07-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think the reason why is... my German tuner told me that Giac is the only flash tuner who has written the code to run higher than 15psi boost AND ignition tables. Everyone else just uses the factory code. Giac has taken the trouble to write their own code. At least that is what I was told and the reason why they can run (up to) 18 psi with their flash tune.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, but GIAC is not the only tuner cappable of running boost higher than 15psi and control timing.

Hell, on my Cobb ATR meth map im running 18psi tapering to 14psi at redline while running 10 degress of timing advance in the mids and 14.5 degrees up top. Using ATR i can create any boost and/or ignition curve i want.

Indo Rider · 08-09-2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud_connected

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think the reason why is... my German tuner told me that Giac is the only flash tuner who has written the code to run higher than 15psi boost AND ignition tables. Everyone else just uses the factory code. Giac has taken the trouble to write their own code. At least that is what I was told and the reason why they can run (up to) 18 psi with their flash tune.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, but GIAC is not the only tuner cappable of running boost higher than 15psi and control timing.

Hell, on my Cobb ATR meth map im running 18psi tapering to 14psi at redline while running 10 degress of timing advance in the mids and 14.5 degrees up top. Using ATR i can create any boost and/or ignition curve i want.

Sounds like random hearsay to me... I'm sure GIAC is great, pretty much any real tune should be great compared to the Dinan. I put this about on the same level as those claims that the BMW branded spark plugs sold at the stealership are somehow superior to the same part number bosch plugs bought from anywhere else. Just my opinion.

Matador · 08-09-2012, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indo Rider

Sounds like random hearsay to me... I'm sure GIAC is great, pretty much any real tune should be great compared to the Dinan. I put this about on the same level as those claims that the BMW branded spark plugs sold at the stealership are somehow superior to the same part number bosch plugs bought from anywhere else. Just my opinion.

i disagree about the Dinan stg 3. I have it and i noticed much more than a slight improvement in power , pull and responsivness. the boost level is by no mean a measure of how good a tune is.

pinternational · 08-09-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matador

i disagree about the Dinan stg 3. I have it and i noticed much more than a slight improvement in power , pull and responsivness. the boost level is by no mean a measure of how good a tune is.

All i'm saying is that the gains you feel from Dinan S3 likely have a lot to do with the intercooler and oil cooler to a much lesser extent than any huge increase in tune aggression. Dinan definitely wouldn't warrant something that put them at risk of actually having to pay for anything that breaks lol.

I'm not saying i wasn't happy enough with Dinan S3. I definitely missed it when i went back to stock to test fuel consumption differences... All i'm saying, and what i think everyone else is saying who've moved on from Dinan by adding DPs, Mids etc...is that there's a whole lot more power, pull and responsiveness to be had beyond the Dinan-warranted comfort zone.

BrokenVert · 08-09-2012, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indo Rider

Sounds like random hearsay to me... I'm sure GIAC is great, pretty much any real tune should be great compared to the Dinan. I put this about on the same level as those claims that the BMW branded spark plugs sold at the stealership are somehow superior to the same part number bosch plugs bought from anywhere else. Just my opinion.

the GIAC tune was developed in conjunction with several 135 race teams around the country, Berk, Scootin2retro in the BMW CCA, etc

Its a well accomplished flash and it is well worth the money.

1Fasst1 · 08-09-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

the GIAC tune was developed in conjunction with several 135 race teams around the country, Berk, Scootin2retro in the BMW CCA, etc

Its a well accomplished flash and it is well worth the money.

If GIAC had a flashloader with some of the features like Cobb, alot of tune companies would be sweating.

BrokenVert · 08-09-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Fasst1

If GIAC had a flashloader with some of the features like Cobb, alot of tune companies would be sweating.

GIAC has a handheld map switcher. You can switch between several maps on the fly.

GIAC will continue to be the one that us hipsters in the know will flock to. Its a shame, because they really do make the better product (though im biased - ive never liked the way that piggyback chips operate)

Matador · 08-09-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinternational

All i'm saying is that the gains you feel from Dinan S3 likely have a lot to do with the intercooler and oil cooler to a much lesser extent than any huge increase in tune aggression. Dinan definitely wouldn't warrant something that put them at risk of actually having to pay for anything that breaks lol.

I'm not saying i wasn't happy enough with Dinan S3. I definitely missed it when i went back to stock to test fuel consumption differences... All i'm saying, and what i think everyone else is saying who've moved on from Dinan by adding DPs, Mids etc...is that there's a whole lot more power, pull and responsiveness to be had beyond the Dinan-warranted comfort zone.

true. I opted to stay with Dinan because i ll probably keep the car til the wheels fall off , so my current thinking takes in long term reliability as well. But i do agree that there is more to be had with DPs and other parts.

Venom · 08-09-2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

GIAC has a handheld map switcher. You can switch between several maps on the fly.

GIAC will continue to be the one that us hipsters in the know will flock to. Its a shame, because they really do make the better product (though im biased - ive never liked the way that piggyback chips operate)

Can you flash back to stock with the handheld switcher? and would a dealer be able to tell that it's been flashed?

(Currently running cobb and there are two reasons that I pick it above the piggies: handheld switching, not detectable at the dealership)

BrokenVert · 08-09-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom

Can you flash back to stock with the handheld switcher? and would a dealer be able to tell that it's been flashed?

(Currently running cobb and there are two reasons that I pick it above the piggies: handheld switching, not detectable at the dealership)

No the stick DME software is completely erased with GIAC.

What makes it better also makes it easily findable by BMW.

smw356 · 08-09-2012, 02:15 PM

It is with cobb too, you just get the accessport to flash it back to stock.

Speaking of which anyone know ballpark prices of the giac tune, and the costs to flash to stock and back if neccessary?

BrokenVert · 08-09-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smw356

It is with cobb too, you just get the accessport to flash it back to stock.

Speaking of which anyone know ballpark prices of the giac tune, and the costs to flash to stock and back if neccessary?

800 for the stage 1 1200 for stage 2 and each map ontop of stage 2 is $100.

As far as I know they operate like Dinan, where they will reflash what youve already bought for free.

ND40oz · 08-09-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Fasst1

If GIAC had a flashloader with some of the features like Cobb, alot of tune companies would be sweating.

It says it's flashloader compatible, have you heard otherwise?

http://www.giacusa.com/programs.php?mpid=550

1Fasst1 · 08-09-2012, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND40oz

It says it's flashloader compatible, have you heard otherwise?

http://www.giacusa.com/programs.php?mpid=550

You are correct in that GIAC calls it a flashloader. You can switch from say stage 1 to a stock like map or a valet mode. You can't switch from stage 1 to stage 2 though. Also as BrokenVert mentioned you can't go back to completely stock because GIAC programs the entire ECU instead of just changing the maps. To go back to original stock has to be done by a GIAC dealer. Also I don't think it will datalog or read/clear codes.

BrokenVert · 08-09-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Fasst1

You are correct in that GIAC calls it a flashloader. You can switch from say stage 1 to a stock like map or a valet mode. You can't switch from stage 1 to stage 2 though. Also as BrokenVert mentioned you can't go back to completely stock because GIAC programs the entire ECU instead of just changing the maps. To go back to original stock has to be done by a GIAC dealer. Also I don't think it will datalog or read/clear codes.

GIAC has a lot of maps out for the stage 2 system.

They have valet - no boost basically makes the car a dog, perfect for Ferris.

Stock - its not the BMW DME software, its one that puts out similar numbers to stock

Low boost and high boost maps - essentially stage 1 and stage 2

There is also stage 2+

Race Gas

Meth

And a few more.

08-07-2012, 06:03 PM	#1
pinternational Enlisted Member 11 Rep 46 Posts Drives: 2008 TiAg 135i Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Upgraded from Dinan S3 to GIAC S2 I've had Dinan Stage 3 (with all accompanying bolt-ons: oil cooler, intercooler, intake) for a couple years. While Stage 3 brought a slight improvement over Stage 2 in terms of performance and 'butt dyno', i suspect the improvement was almost entirely due to the bolt-ons... I'm not sure that the extra expense required to take the car from stage 2 to stage 3 (in terms of hardware) necessarily paid off in terms of the power gains provided by the 'more aggressive' Dinan software. In hindsight, the only reason to get the bolt-on mods required by Dinan S3 is so that when your factory warranty is due to expire, you're only a few small steps away from having all the hardware mods required/suggested for a 'real tune'...or piggyback or whatever you choose. Over the past week I added catted downpipes and Maddad Mids to my Dinan Stage 3 car and...i'm not gonna lie, it made a huge difference. The car pulled noticeably harder higher up the RPM range. But, Dinan S3 isn't written to factor in a downpipe or midpipe... so to stop here would have been a waste. So.... Today, I added GIAC Stage 2 and holy s**t. Night and Day improvement over the Dinan Software. Whatever improvement the DPs/Mids brought to the Dinan S3 tune, that improvement literally DOUBLED by overwriting it with the GIAC S2. Its scary! I feel like i'm driving pretty much the same way, but instead of accelerating semi-hard and being at 100km/h....I look down and i'm doing 140 or 150km/h with equal effort. Its, quite simply, smooth and effortless power that you've really got to pay attention to! The grass on the other side of the Dinan fence is most definitely lush and green and really really fast
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08-07-2012, 06:19 PM	#2
ken1137 Brigadier General 89 Rep 3,732 Posts Drives: BMW S1000XR Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Gilbert, AZ iTrader: (7) Garage List 2009 e90 335i [6.40]	Very nice!...I always suspected Stage 2 with GIAC would be pretty darn good. __________________ BMWCCA member
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08-07-2012, 06:31 PM	#3
Dackelone European Editor 10604 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	I think the reason why is... my German tuner told me that Giac is the only flash tuner who has written the code to run higher than 15psi boost AND ignition tables. Everyone else just uses the factory code. Giac has taken the trouble to write their own code. At least that is what I was told and the reason why they can run (up to) 18 psi with their flash tune. __________________ Dackel's European Delivery Museum Guide
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08-07-2012, 06:31 PM	#4
kkrikkett Second Lieutenant 23 Rep 274 Posts Drives: 09 135 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: BC iTrader: (4)	So did u put it back to stock then put in tune? Or r u running tune on top of dinan tune?
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08-07-2012, 07:24 PM	#6
pinternational Enlisted Member 11 Rep 46 Posts Drives: 2008 TiAg 135i Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	It would have erased the Dinan tune altogether and replaced it with the GIAC. I am 99% sure its impossible to run 2 tunes at once hehe....unless you're putting a piggyback like JB+ on top of a Dinan tune....
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08-07-2012, 07:27 PM	#7
pinternational Enlisted Member 11 Rep 46 Posts Drives: 2008 TiAg 135i Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	I don't have a boost gauge, but am considering getting the car dyno'd to get a better idea of what's going on. I never dyno'd the dynan S3 tho, so i won't know EXACTLY the performance improvement, but man... butt dyno is all i need to know that the Dinan was like a non-existent tune in comparison. Less so with the DPs and Mids, but yeah... still no comparison between the Dinan S3 and GIAC S2. Last edited by pinternational; 08-08-2012 at 05:38 AM..
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08-09-2012, 02:15 PM	#18
smw356 Private 2 Rep 79 Posts Drives: 2013 135i Join Date: May 2012 Location: Ohio iTrader: (0)	It is with cobb too, you just get the accessport to flash it back to stock. Speaking of which anyone know ballpark prices of the giac tune, and the costs to flash to stock and back if neccessary?
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