Hpfp vs non hpfp vs ???

[flinchy]

How much more 'high pressure' is it really?

What are the actual differences in terms of flow rate and performance potential between them? Does the n54 actually require THAT much more flow?

And since the hpfp has such a bad track record (may be fine now?) are there actually alternatives to it?

More curious than anything

[ReyT]

not sure if that is what you are referring to but isn't the hp in hpfp stand for "High Pressure" and not "high performance" ?

And the current HPFP are fine now.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by ReyT

not sure if that is what you are referring to but isn't the hp in hpfp stand for "High Pressure" and not "high performance" ?

And the current HPFP are fine now.

My bad high pressure it is

Question still stands lol

Ed: i'm gathering that the direct injection requires a fair bit more pressure over conventional injection?

[RadiuM]

I have a bosch 040 in my gtr and it is under 100psi.

the HighPressureFP in the n54's are around 2000psi.

* Disclaimer, not exact figures but direct injection cars have insane pressure pushing into the injectors.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by RadiuM

I have a bosch 040 in my gtr and it is under 100psi.

the HighPressureFP in the n54's are around 2000psi.

* Disclaimer, not exact figures but direct injection cars have insane pressure pushing into the injectors.

Yeah i found one google result quoting 3,000psi and most conventional efi pumps don't really do more than 5xpsi

That sounds insane!


So i'd guess there isn't really much room for aftermarket with such crazy requirement? Lol

[Pig Farmer]

I believe 3,000 psi at the injector sounds about right. Compare this to BMW's latest twin turbo diesel... >28,000 psi. I wonder how those fuel pump are holding up?

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Pig Farmer

I believe 3,000 psi at the injector sounds about right. Compare this to BMW's latest twin turbo diesel... >28,000 psi. I wonder how those fuel pump are holding up?

28,000? Is that that what the injectors are pushing or the pump? That sounds stupid high though, surely it would have to cause issues

I mean, wow

If they could barely get 3,000 working well, how much trouble they had with 28,000 hah

Or maybe the 28,000 is easier as there's a lower flow rate to deal with?

[kmli5]

Makes the engine run much more efficiently. You can get the exact amount of fuel exactly when the engine needs it.

[Stuart@BMRAutowerkes]

Yet to see any failures with the new series of pumps... time will tell.

[flinchy]

is there any point power wise where flow volume becomes an issue for the stock fuel pump?

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by flinchy

is there any point power wise where flow volume becomes an issue for the stock fuel pump?

There were some suggestions from the RB turbo setups that the fuelling could be and issue. However, Vishnu single turbo setup runs on stock pump and have no issue at 600hp.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by sparoz

There were some suggestions from the RB turbo setups that the fuelling could be and issue. However, Vishnu single turbo setup runs on stock pump and have no issue at 600hp.

Is there even an option to upgrade?

My google fu found a 10.8 335i so i'm guessing it's running a lot of power?

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by sparoz

There were some suggestions from the RB turbo setups that the fuelling could be and issue. However, Vishnu single turbo setup runs on stock pump and have no issue at 600hp.

I think they are also running 4 meth nozzles as well So it's hard to say what the primary fuel is now :

[Nugget]

In DI VW/Audi engines upgrading the HPFP is quite common. Because it runs off a camshaft lobe the pressure is proportional to engine speed. So a higher capacity pump helps you tune in more mid range power. Makes a huge difference in drivability.
Not sure how similar the BMW DI system is.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by pavo335

I think they are also running 4 meth nozzles as well So it's hard to say what the primary fuel is now :

Getting high power out of these motors seems so much more complex than a japanese turbo car.. Boost, cams, better fuel, boost lol

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Nugget

In DI VW/Audi engines upgrading the HPFP is quite common. Because it runs off a camshaft lobe the pressure is proportional to engine speed. So a higher capacity pump helps you tune in more mid range power. Makes a huge difference in drivability.
Not sure how similar the BMW DI system is.

I guess not if no one has tried it?

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by flinchy

Getting high power out of these motors seems so much more complex than a japanese turbo car.. Boost, cams, better fuel, boost lol

I think the problem can be best summarised with the following comment "when changing the battery you must code it to the car or it will explode"

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by pavo335

I think the problem can be best summarised with the following comment "when changing the battery you must code it to the car or it will explode"

Hahha explode? I heard a bit more calm 'will greatly shorten the life of'

Does anyone make items such as cams for the n54? You know, sorta standard performance enhancing items? Doesn't the n54 usually run out of puff midway through the 6,000's?

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by flinchy

Hahha explode? I heard a bit more calm 'will greatly shorten the life of'

Does anyone make items such as cams for the n54? You know, sorta standard performance enhancing items? Doesn't the n54 usually run out of puff midway through the 6,000's?

from my limited knowledge.... (read previous thread on exploding batteries ) the N54 (n55 more so) does not work this way. I agree in the old days you just got a lumpy cam and off you went, these days with variable cams there is little to no point, it is all software tuning. there is an upgradd head available in the states iirc that in my understanding of their their claim (again refer to my previous thread on exploding batteries) performance is in air flow and higher revving components. but it was a lotta money for not a lota gain.

wait for the vargos (or something like that) upgraded twins and puff puff puff your way to more powah

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by pavo335

from my limited knowledge.... (read previous thread on exploding batteries ) the N54 (n55 more so) does not work this way. I agree in the old days you just got a lumpy cam and off you went, these days with variable cams there is little to no point, it is all software tuning. there is an upgradd head available in the states iirc that in my understanding of their their claim (again refer to my previous thread on exploding batteries) performance is in air flow and higher revving components. but it was a lotta money for not a lota gain.

wait for the vargos (or something like that) upgraded twins and puff puff puff your way to more powah

Vanos only does timing not lift and duration (n54 only has double vanos)

Valvetronic does lift, but is at 'max lift' when you go wot anyway, replacement cams still exceed the stock max lift etc.

Only hondas have properly variable camshafts (unique profiles) as far as i'm aware

There would be gains to see from bigger cams for sure


Yeah i've seen the pre-built heads

Would be cheaper to do your own head at their prices, assuming you could actually get cams/springs and stuff to put in

It just seems strange that everyone Jumps straight to bigger turbo's more boost, and skips the step of making that added airflow even more efficient

ED: i just stumbled upon some threads claiming the stock LPFP would max out around 500whp if you were lucky? (depending on turbo setup etc)
with so many replacement turbo options coming to light, i'd guess an upgrade to the fuelling system will come along fairly quickly?