Obsession with HP when Torque matters more

[mjposner]

Why is there such an obsession over horsepower numbers and so little paid to Torque. Sure if you track it is relevant but for street driving isn't torque more important?

I know bragging and all, but still, thoughts?

[i001947]

So true. But it's not sexy or fun saying "my car has more torque than yours". Horse Power sounds more man-like.

[devilbones]

Thats why I was trying to get torque renamed to 'Wolverine Power' or something a bit more manly.

[chris3g]

it's not true, torque is never more important. in any given situation, horsepower determines how fast a car will accelerate.

torque is only one part of the equation, in order to accelerate a car you also need RPM, and the relationship between torque and RPM is exactly what is described by horsepower.

forgetting about gearing for now, take these scenarios:

you have a motor with 1000 lb/ft of torque but only spins at 100 RPM
(1000 x 100) / 5252 = 19 horsepower. Not going to move very quickly.

conversely, you have a motor that spins to 10,000 RPM but only makes 10 lb/ft torque at that speed -
(10,000 x 10) / 5252 = 19 horsepower. same problem.

Finally, taking the best of both, you have a motor which can spin 10,000 RPM and can make 1000 lb/ft of torque doing it
(10,000 x 1000) / 5252 = 1,904 horsepower. now you have a fast car.

People have written pages about this but to sum it up, if you need one number to describe how fast a car can accelerate in a given situation, it is horsepower.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by chris3g

it's not true, torque is never more important. in any given situation, horsepower determines how fast a car will accelerate.

torque is only one part of the equation, in order to accelerate a car you also need RPM, and the relationship between torque and RPM is exactly what is described by horsepower.

forgetting about gearing for now, take these scenarios:

you have a motor with 1000 lb/ft of torque but only spins at 100 RPM
(1000 x 100) / 5252 = 19 horsepower. Not going to move very quickly.

conversely, you have a motor that spins to 10,000 RPM but only makes 10 lb/ft torque at that speed -
(10,000 x 10) / 5252 = 19 horsepower. same problem.

Finally, taking the best of both, you have a motor which can spin 10,000 RPM and can make 1000 lb/ft of torque doing it
(10,000 x 1000) / 5252 = 1,904 horsepower. now you have a fast car.

People have written pages about this but to sum it up, if you need one number to describe how fast a car can accelerate in a given situation, it is horsepower.

Horsepower to weight would be more accurate...

Horsepower sells cars , torque wins races so they say and I still do agree but there are many more factors, and it surely not only is horsepower....

I remember driving a TVR Griffith 500 almost 20 years ago. It had 'only' 340BHP and a lot of torque and weighed about 500kgs less than an E9x M3...

Cheers
Robin

[W///]

Not once have I ever thought the M3 didn't have enough torque in stock form. This car will so easily get you in trouble as is.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by W///

Not once have I ever thought the M3 didn't have enough torque in stock form. This car will so easily get you in trouble as is.

I had exactly the opposite feeling when I had my E90 M3 6MT...

The 997S I testdrove before that was way more torquey at lower revs(2500-4000) than the E90 M3 and faster to 60-100-120 mph...

It was the weight of both cars...

My ex E90 M3 only was happy beyond 5000rpm it felt. This wasn't the case with my 2002 E46 M3 back then....

Cheers
Robin

[chris3g]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

Horsepower to weight would be more accurate...

Horsepower sells cars , torque wins races so they say and I still do agree but there are many more factors, and it surely not only is horsepower....

I remember driving a TVR Griffith 500 almost 20 years ago. It had 'only' 340BHP and a lot of torque and weighed about 500kgs less than an E9x M3...

Cheers
Robin

People speak of horsepower and torque like they are 2 completely different things. An engine makes torque, and spins at an RPM. Horsepower is simply a mathematical calculation representing the combination of these 2 values. So of course torque is important, but it's importance is already included in the calculation for horsepower.

[lsal]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

If the stock torque isn't sufficient for street driving you are doing it wrong.

I was obsessed with horsepower, and ended up with around 650 running a 4:10 diff - torque became irrelevant.

Ah yes. I remember... And she's gone...

[jeff4598]

If you want quick torque in the M3 keep the revs up. The lack of a torque hump at low revs is what keeps the car so linear in it's response- with relativly even torque rather than a bulge down low, the torque is largely linearly related to RPM and of course RPMs are what the driver can control with the gas pedal and the shifter, giving us linear control of acceleration rather than the hit the throttle and see how well the tires stick and how far down the road you are flung feel in -for example an AMG engine.

[Rambler]

So my 335d should be faster than my M3. While it might feel faster on the butt dyno b/c of the push you into your seat factor, the numbers tell a much different story (for example, trap speed).

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

I had exactly the opposite feeling when I had my E90 M3 6MT...

The 997S I testdrove before that was way more torquey at lower revs(2500-4000) than the E90 M3 and faster to 60-100-120 mph...

It was the weight of both cars...

My ex E90 M3 only was happy beyond 5000rpm it felt. This wasn't the case with my 2002 E46 M3 back then....Cheers
Robin

You mean that your E46 was unhappy all the time!?

[pkimM3r]

Buy a camaro then.

Or, trade your m3 in for one. Ban this guy! Lol.

If you rev a little and dump the clutch while at a standstill or a roll (rev and dump in 2nd) its plenty enough. I dont understand these posts.

[duk]

cant have one without the other

[brava09]

Originally Posted by Rambler

So my 335d should be faster than my M3. While it might feel faster on the butt dyno b/c of the push you into your seat factor, the numbers tell a much different story (for example, trap speed).

+1

Torque is just marketing....especially the torque at the engine. Torque at the wheels is the one that moves the car, and that one is influenced by the gear box.

the M3 has more torque at the wheels than the 335d, hence the better numbers

[Longboarder]

Tons of torque spins tires and breaks things. Torque is king in tractor pulling, burn out contests, and growing mullets.

HP win races, makes you rich and gets you hot chicks.

[TrevorM3]

AMG!

[mjposner]

pkim1079, I was not complaining about the Torque in the M3 at all. I just what show like Top Gear and see the HP race going crazy and they rarely mention Torque. Again, street driving imho, torque is more important than HP. Where on the street are you going to go 125mph legally?

[klammer]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Tons of torque spins tires and breaks things. Torque is king in tractor pulling, burn out contests, and growing mullets.

HP win races, makes you rich and gets you hot chicks.

[M3AG]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Tons of torque spins tires and breaks things. Torque is king in tractor pulling, burn out contests, and growing mullets.

HP win races, makes you rich and gets you hot chicks.

+1

[WRXXX]

Another HP vs Torque discussion. How refreshing. I'll file this next to the 335i vs M3 rarity.

[Jonjt]

Originally Posted by WRXXX

Another HP vs Torque discussion. How refreshing. I'll file this next to the 335i vs M3 rarity.

+1

People would be far better served by reading a physics book.