Buttonwillow 13CW 07.28.2013 back in stock + R-S3

[OC3]

Met several forum guys (Martin, Terry, etc) at the track. And, always good tracking with Gabriel, Jean-Sebastian, etc.

But, changing tires/wheels in 105F degree heat wasn't fun.

[pkimM3r]

Awesome. Looks like you couldnt get the usual grip that day. On saturday there was debris everywhere - cotton corner had a pile of crap and a cone in the middle of the track in one of the sessions.

[Ti-Jean]

It was good to see you out there on Sunday. Your video production skills always amazes me The bonus footage is nice.. didn't know you had a camera back there

I'm going to post up some footage of the ride along in my GT3 later today.

[yandy]

34 psi hot on RS-3s I think may be a bit low. Those things have soft sidewalls from what I remember. I would think 38-40 hot would be a better match for those tires. I could be wrong though, def no expert.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by yandy

34 psi hot on RS-3s I think may be a bit low. Those things have soft sidewalls from what I remember. I would think 38-40 hot would be a better match for those tires. I could be wrong though, def no expert.

I ran them 35-36 hot and they felt a little slippery and I got understeer with them on my car. When I dropped them to 26-27 cold (31-32 hot) they felt very comfortable.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by Ti-Jean

It was good to see you out there on Sunday. Your video production skills always amazes me The bonus footage is nice.. didn't know you had a camera back there

I'm going to post up some footage of the ride along in my GT3 later today.

That was a nice bonus clip, it good to see your line with the GT3.

[USCTrojanMan29]

OC3, I'm curious about your take on something. How much slower would you have run if you left DSC on the whole time? Which leads me to another question...will having DSC/PASM/Auto Save on limit how fast you can go around the track (not that I have any intention of turning the auto save off in the near term).

[vitiokas95]

a lot of sliding in the corners but you handle well. Good video

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

OC3, I'm curious about your take on something. How much slower would you have run if you left DSC on the whole time? Which leads me to another question...will having DSC/PASM/Auto Save on limit how fast you can go around the track (not that I have any intention of turning the auto save off in the near term).

I'm planning on running dsc off the next event with bmw cca. I was in the C group with you and went out alone and my instructor for the day told me to advance to the B group in the next event. That was with all nannies on though. I'll run in the C group again with nannies off the next event. I will stay low on the roval this time! ha

For me, I just think its a lot more beneficial to learn with things off in the long run. I felt that in my car, even with euro mdm on, it sometimes cut in before traction was lost.

[FormulaMMM]

Nice vid. 36-37 hot is the sweet spot for RS3s in my experience.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Awesome. Looks like you couldnt get the usual grip that day. On saturday there was debris everywhere - cotton corner had a pile of crap and a cone in the middle of the track in one of the sessions.

Thanks. Yea, was quite surprised at the lack of grip versus what I was expecting/hoping. The tires were fairly good condition, so I'm thinking I set the pressure too low...

Originally Posted by Ti-Jean

It was good to see you out there on Sunday. Your video production skills always amazes me The bonus footage is nice.. didn't know you had a camera back there

I'm going to post up some footage of the ride along in my GT3 later today.

Re: video production, hah. I slept like an hour the night before because, while watching the video cam/mic wire mod Youtube videos, it sort of lead to these other videos using Mac's that talked about 'splitting' videos. And, I was going "damn, that is a feature I would love to have in Windows Movie Maker, so I checked, and it was there the whole time. So, was playing around w/ it and didn't notice time fly. x)

Look forward to your footage.

Originally Posted by yandy

34 psi hot on RS-3s I think may be a bit low. Those things have soft sidewalls from what I remember. I would think 38-40 hot would be a better match for those tires. I could be wrong though, def no expert.

You may very well be right. Last year, I went thru 4 sets of R-S3's, with both GC sleeve over kit & JRZ and, back then, I was setting them at 37~38 hot. But, (long story short) I recently came to a realization about the importance of setting the correct tire pressure (while running Hankook TD's) at various ambient temperatures and how it affects lap times by like 1 or almost 2 seconds. So, although I know that R-S3's have relatively soft sidewalls, I was experimenting by targetting 34 hot since it was such a hot day and, by lowering the tire pressure, hoping that the tires that now squat more to the track surface would get me more tire contact patch area...

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

OC3, I'm curious about your take on something. How much slower would you have run if you left DSC on the whole time? Which leads me to another question...will having DSC/PASM/Auto Save on limit how fast you can go around the track (not that I have any intention of turning the auto save off in the near term).

With so many corners at Buttonwillow where exit speeds would get killed by DSC/MDM, I wanna say may be... ~2 seconds?

By the time I went DSC off, I had heard all the pros & cons. But, what prompted me to do it was, as you get faster in MDM mode, when you're exiting corners like Sunrise, Off-Ramp, Sunset, etc, the MDM kills the throttle (you can see the RPM needle fall) and the car seems to come to a near-standstill. And, as you get faster (& more impatient) that wait gets longer & longer. So, I said, f*ck it, I'm turning DSC off - and, right away, Oh Sh*t Moments video series started, lulz.

But, I wouldn't turn off traction control (TC) just for the sake of turning it off. It's fine to first get used to the various track speeds as well as get familiar with the layouts of various tracks, and then, consider turning it off. But, the down side to this is, after you achieve certain lap times in TC/DSC/MDM mode, you turn off TC and you are now driving noticeably more carefully and, therefore, your lap times suddenly skyrocket. Sort of a blow to one's ego. But, eventually you surpass your previous lap times - and, then some. Or, you turn off TC now, as pkim1079 plans to do. There's no right way.

But, re: your GT3, for apples-to-apples comparison, may be get a ride in Jean-Sebastian's GT3? He's quite a driver. You'll get a sense of dynamics involved when you turn TC off in a GT3. Don't worry, though, Jean-Sebastian is conservative (you won't pee in your pants, hah).

Originally Posted by vitiokas95

a lot of sliding in the corners but you handle well. Good video

Thanks man. Glad you enjoyed it.

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Nice vid. 36-37 hot is the sweet spot for RS3s in my experience.

Thanks. 10-4.

[pkimM3r]

To piggyback the above response, going fast with TC on, you will start to gain bad habits. Thats what im not looking to do. Its hard to lose bad habits. Just like in golf!!

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

To piggyback the above response, going fast with TC on, you will start to gain bad habits.

I know this is a common belief. Not in my experience.

All depends on how you use it. If it's protection against routine stupid maneuvers, then yes. If it's there as a safety measure while you learn car control, the track, and push the car beyond what you're accustomed to (but not beyond the limitations of the car), then not necessarily.

I would suggest that first timers and anyone just learning should go TC on. Benefits are two fold -- if they're reckless, then for their own safety and the safety of everyone else on track. If they're cautious and analytical it can be a resource.

I ran MDM traction for many events after getting the M3. Learned where the TC was helping/saving me, and where it was slowing me down. Literally my first ever session DSC off I went faster. So TC doesn't always create, or reinforce bad habits.

Still use MDM traction at new or less known tracks, then typically shut it off later in the day. I know some others that do the same.

[pkimM3r]

edit: reply was so damn long!

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

I know this is a common belief. Not in my experience.

Not really for the majority though.

I think most of the people want to get on the track, and go fast and post quick lap times and not care about learning technique, etc. Personally, the learning part is more fun than the going fast part. The speed will come later on as skills build up. Going back to golf, you swing slow at first and then when your swing is right, you can bomb that driver 300 yards (with a roll of course lol).

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

edit: reply was so damn long!



Not really for the majority though.

I think most of the people want to get on the track, and go fast and post quick lap times and not care about learning technique, etc. Personally, the learning part is more fun than the going fast part. The speed will come later on as skills build up. Going back to golf, you swing slow at first and then when your swing is right, you can bomb that driver 300 yards (with a roll of course lol).

Depends on the crowd and track I suppose. Most newcomers that I ride with might have designs on pole position, but about midway through their first sessions they typically realize just how lost they are. Racing line, tracking out, brake points, turn in points, throttle application.. a lot to think about as you're learning. Keeping TC on seems only humane, honestly.

The learning and progression is definitely the most fun.

I'm exclusively 3 iron off the tee, so I wouldn't know about that 300 yard business.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Going back to golf, you swing slow at first and then when your swing is right, you can bomb that driver 300 yards (with a roll of course lol).

Not so. Just hang out at the range for 5 minutes and you will see 99% of all golfers swinging out of their shoes. I suspect most new track drivers are similarly a bit overzealous until they have their first, as OC3 says, "Oh-Sh*t-Moment."

[Ti-Jean]

Originally Posted by OC3

Look forward to your footage.

OK, finally was able to upload the video. Here it is taking OC3 in the red group session just before lunch on Sunday... very hot out there! My video editing is not on par with OC3 but hopefully my driving is

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by okusa

Not so. Just hang out at the range for 5 minutes and you will see 99% of all golfers swinging out of their shoes. I suspect most new track drivers are similarly a bit overzealous until they have their first, as OC3 says, "Oh-Sh*t-Moment."

This is exactly what i mean that most ppl go out there and literally full throttle the whole time lol.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by Ti-Jean

OK, finally was able to upload the video. Here it is taking OC3 in the red group session just before lunch on Sunday... very hot out there! My video editing is not on par with OC3 but hopefully my driving is

lulz, I'm having a flashback! 'twas definitely fun. Your driving & your car can definitely accommodate a bit more aggressiveness.

Amazing brakes, your car has. And, to be able to run that many hot laps with NT01 getting only a bit greasy - the wing definitely helps!

[TheKosherStogie]

This is why I love buttonwillow and why the M3 is such a fun platform. Good times